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GR86 General Topics (2nd Gen 2022+ Toyota 86) General topics for the GR86 second-gen 86


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Old 11-25-2020, 04:49 AM   #99
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I'm just focusing on NA I guess.

If you are going forced induction, any high compression engine is frustrating right. But on the other hand the power made NA with the emissions restrictions and the high compression makes NA tuning as cheap as its ever been with headers and e85 and cheap tuning chips.
Wow. Showed your hand there. Fall for any bullshit you are fed but won't listen to facts. If you had owned the car for "7 years" I would say you were some Facebook education 16 year old trying to ply with the adults.
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Old 11-25-2020, 05:34 AM   #100
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I’d say good, not great is a fair description for a stock fa20. I think most of the hate is from:

1. Non-owners who don’t realize the torque dip means it should be driven like a vtec Honda (4800-7400 powerband)
2. Non-owners who only compare it to a f/k series or <insert generic 2.0 turbo>
3. Owners who’ve blown up their engine

At the end of the day, it’s a high compression, 100+ hp\l NA engine. Can’t really go that wrong. Maybe it’s because I haven’t blown up my engine yet despite 30-35 track days on it, but I enjoy revving it out. Even the sound is growing on me now that I’ve blocked off the sound tube and am using a 2017 oem header. And running e85, I’d definitely consider it for the top 5. It’s for that reason I agree with the OP’s premise that the fa24 might end up being a great engine. It potentially will feel very similar to an e85 fa20. Hopefully Toyota/Subaru will have addressed the reliability concerns. Time will tell.
Never piloted a vtec, but my car before the 86 was a silver Corolla Sportivo - Basically a corolla hatch with the 2zz.

It had a punch like a turbo up around 6k, and although it wasnt a torque engine, and the power only really appeared up top, the rest of the rev range was still ultra smooth and free revving. It never annoyed me in the middle like the 86, you just got the thrill of up top.

All personal opinions of course. I certainly miss that engine more than the 86, but overall the 86 was a FAR superior car feel - I never loved the corolla, but I was smitten with the 86.
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Old 11-25-2020, 05:42 AM   #101
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Wow. Showed your hand there. Fall for any bullshit you are fed but won't listen to facts. If you had owned the car for "7 years" I would say you were some Facebook education 16 year old trying to ply with the adults.
Huh? I'm talking about open flash tablet and the great community work in building tunes.

Geeze.
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Old 11-25-2020, 05:52 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by Blighty View Post
I'm just focusing on NA I guess.

If you are going forced induction, any high compression engine is frustrating right. But on the other hand the power made NA with the emissions restrictions and the high compression makes NA tuning as cheap as its ever been with headers and e85 and cheap tuning chips.
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Huh? I'm talking about open flash tablet and the great community work in building tunes.

Geeze.
So again with the incorrect information. OFT is not a "tuning chip" in any way shape or form.
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Old 11-25-2020, 06:15 AM   #103
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So again with the incorrect information. OFT is not a "tuning chip" in any way shape or form.


Perhaps it is chipMONKS inside it, doing little binary signals to the usb cable to re-program that ecu.

I guess you win this round, evil tCoat.
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Old 11-25-2020, 06:18 AM   #104
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Perhaps it is chipMONKS inside it, doing little binary signals to the usb cable to re-program that ecu.

I guess you win this round, evil tCoat.
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Old 11-25-2020, 09:52 AM   #105
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Whats the hp equivalent to that?

I can see the torque dip still exists when they have to jump over each other...killing momentum.
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Old 11-25-2020, 11:21 AM   #106
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Nasty. Is there a way to check when the rockers go out of alignment and fix it?

Interestingly, there were problems with 3-4 gear changes in some cars just a bit higher than those revs. Is that why you short shifted - you get the grind?
The rocker arm issue is due to valvetrain geometry. It was improved in the 14'+. Someone on here has reported kicking out a rocker arm at a stop light while idling.


What are you talking about? Short shift=shifting early. If I left the car in third and waited to shift at the ideal time when the engine is revved all the way out, my position on track wouldn't allow a shift so I go to 4th early. Short shifting is a situational technique, not anything to do with a problem.
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Old 11-25-2020, 12:41 PM   #107
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The rocker arm issue is due to valvetrain geometry. It was improved in the 14'+. Someone on here has reported kicking out a rocker arm at a stop light while idling.


What are you talking about? Short shift=shifting early. If I left the car in third and waited to shift at the ideal time when the engine is revved all the way out, my position on track wouldn't allow a shift so I go to 4th early. Short shifting is a situational technique, not anything to do with a problem.
Oh just curious. When you said short shift, I didn't know you were talking in relation to the track.

There is a reported issue for some with changing gears from 3rd to 4th over 6000, so I thought perhaps you were avoiding it.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37129
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37622
https://www.reddit.com/r/ft86/commen...th_gear_grind/

Oh and I ask about the rocker arms only because that link I posted to you indicated an issue that seemed to occur over time and was potentially fixable if you could catch it. I've got a limited understanding of it I guess, again just curious.
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Old 11-25-2020, 01:08 PM   #108
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Oh and I ask about the rocker arms only because that link I posted to you indicated an issue that seemed to occur over time and was potentially fixable if you could catch it. I've got a limited understanding of it I guess, again just curious.
That is just a valve shim and part of regular valve adjustment procedure. I had the timing cover and valve covers off on this engine to reseal it and I checked valve lash at that time, it was right in the middle of spec. The 14+ cars have longer valve stems and deeper pockets on the rocker arm to prevent the issue but there are reports of engines in those model years still popping out rocker arms.

Here is a video of it kicking out just turning the engine over by hand.

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Old 11-25-2020, 01:53 PM   #109
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That is just a valve shim and part of regular valve adjustment procedure. I had the timing cover and valve covers off on this engine to reseal it and I checked valve lash at that time, it was right in the middle of spec. The 14+ cars have longer valve stems and deeper pockets on the rocker arm to prevent the issue but there are reports of engines in those model years still popping out rocker arms.

Here is a video of it kicking out just turning the engine over by hand.

Great video. If he wasn't 800kms from me I'd have a new mechanic!

I assume you bought his little fix part?
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Old 11-26-2020, 04:38 PM   #110
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I have never understood the big deal at all about the “torque dip”. Granted I have a 2017 and maybe the gearing change made a big difference, but I just don’t get it. IMO it’s just a non-issue. If you want around town stop and go and good mileage, stay below 5000 rpm and there’s plenty of torque to move the car well if you choose the right gear. Choosing the right gear is everything. If you want balls out fun and to wring the car for all it’s worth, keep it above 5000 rpm at all times. Plenty of torque and power for whatever you want to do. I can always find a gear and an rpm to do exactly what I want, whether that’s getting 34 mpg, or sideways fun around a really good visibility curve or turn. Either one is easy peasy. Just gotta choose the right gear.
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Old 11-26-2020, 05:30 PM   #111
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Whats the hp equivalent to that?

I can see the torque dip still exists when they have to jump over each other...killing momentum.
Well neither wants to be the one in back due to emissions.
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Old 11-26-2020, 06:34 PM   #112
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I have never understood the big deal at all about the “torque dip”. Granted I have a 2017 and maybe the gearing change made a big difference, but I just don’t get it. IMO it’s just a non-issue. If you want around town stop and go and good mileage, stay below 5000 rpm and there’s plenty of torque to move the car well if you choose the right gear. Choosing the right gear is everything. If you want balls out fun and to wring the car for all it’s worth, keep it above 5000 rpm at all times. Plenty of torque and power for whatever you want to do. I can always find a gear and an rpm to do exactly what I want, whether that’s getting 34 mpg, or sideways fun around a really good visibility curve or turn. Either one is easy peasy. Just gotta choose the right gear.
Whilst appropriate gear selection is important, there is no getting around the fact that to get to the power band above 5k rpm from a stop, you still have to briefly endure the mid-range torque dip since engines cannot magically teleport from 1k rpm to 5k rpm (well, maybe the LFA V10 can! ). It is the impact the torque dip has on getting up to speed initially that bothers some people a lot, and also has an impact on the 0-100 times etc. Of course, this doesn't bother some people, and it really bothers others.
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