Tesla Cyber Truck (Most Hideous Truck/Tank Ever)

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I'm familiar, and a lot of has to do with driving force to make the entire process overcomplicated, even in the case of Tesla. There really isn't as much need for all the communication with the pump. It's a nice to have feature but isn't critical. The whole process should be no harder than charging your cellphone, and payment should be done through methods that have worked for, and people are familar with, for several decades.

Yet, he could have just sold the adapter rather than complicating it by insisting on installing it at the pump which means it will be a slow process.

I agree what Ford has done is a good thing for them.

As far as Tesla building an infrastructure, they had to do it to sell cars. But, if we hold Musk at his word that he wants to electrify driving regardless of who you buy the car from, then my thought is he should spin the network off as its on independent entity and force it to be "brand neutral" moving forward. That said, I applaud Tesla for recognizing the need and taking the bull by the horns.

As far as VW, they didn't really want to build a network, they were pretty much forced into it by their settlement over Dieselgate.

I don’t know everything about what it takes to supercharger a battery, but I think it is more complicated than just plugging in the vehicle because the cord is cooled, the battery temperature and charge level might determine how much electricity the car can receive, and also, the battery packs might have different charge ability/capacity; the station might have 320kW capacity, but the vehicle might only have 200kW, so communication between the vehicle and charger is probably much more intricate than just plugging it in like a power tool. Tesla batteries condition themselves, as they approach a supercharger, so that battery is ideal temperature for charging.

https://www.tesla.com/support/videos.../supercharging

From what I understand from the above video and article below, you get a lot of information from Tesla’s supercharger network, and you can use it much more seamlessly. With non-Teslas, the process requires a few more steps, but is still better, and it should be even better on future Fords once they integrate Tesla’s API and plugs. Like adding Apple CarPlay, I think there could be software on top of firmware and hardware upgrades. If Ford customers can use the map function to plan routes and determine which chargers are open and likely to be free then that would be a big upgrade in features for Ford customers. If the battery can be conditioned too and everything then charging will be faster, stations will be less congested because of it, and the batteries will likely last longer over the life of the vehicle.

https://techcrunch.com/2023/05/25/fo...uture-evs/amp/

“We’re very happy to support Ford vehicles with the Tesla Supercharger network, and also provide API access,” Musk said Thursday. “So like a Ford vehicle can charge at a Tesla supercharger using a Ford app seamlessly. Essentially, the idea is that we don’t want the Tesla Supercharger network to be like a walled garden. We want it to be something that is supportive of electrification and sustainable transport in general.”

During the Twitter Spaces, Farley praised the location of Tesla’s Superchargers, the reliability of the routing software and the ease of use of Tesla’s connector.

[MyHybridBurnsGasAndTires]

thinking about the time tesla innovated their way into huge tax credits for pretending that swappable batteries were going to be the way to get drivers back on the road faster than supercharging


https://dailykanban.com/2015/06/23/t...ge-to-nowhere/

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by MyHybridBurnsGasAndTires

thinking about the time tesla innovated their way into huge tax credits for pretending that swappable batteries were going to be the way to get drivers back on the road faster than supercharging


https://dailykanban.com/2015/06/23/t...ge-to-nowhere/

I think you are missing the order of events. CARB made the program, and Tesla qualified for the program by creating a product that could be swapped. This is like blaming companies for taking advantage of tax loopholes, or blaming Tesla for selling tax credits, when they have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders. I would point the finger at CARB for failing to create appropriate incentives to create adequate supply, and I would blame individuals for not demanding this service, but I blame individuals less because they didn't have options (in buying power to vote with their money).

I recall multiple interviews were Tesla claimed that owners didn't want to swap batteries. I don't believe that would be the case for everyone, as Nio has proved battery swapping is possible, and they have proved that there is high demand for their products, having provided millions of swaps. It is possible that many Tesla owners didn't like the idea of swapping batteries and potentially being liable for needing to replace a bad battery under their warranty contract. Luxury vehicle owners might be less likely to swap/share than people who drive economy cars.

For Tesla, they may be operating at peak capacity and don't have batteries to spare for swapping stations. They may be and have been backordered with vehicle orders and grid projects, so producing extra batteries for swapping may not be the most profitable business model for them at this time. Moreover, they were probably wanting to go with an integrated battery in future models believing that approach for production, cost and efficiency would win in the short or long term.

I believe swapping is the best model to have for BEVs alongside having PHEVs for certain users, and I believe it will have its day in the future. It actually might require the government to step in to create a standard for battery sizes and connections for removal for swapping and to require a certain number of vehicles in their fleet to be swappable.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I believe swapping is the best model to have for BEVs alongside having PHEVs for certain users, and I believe it will have its day in the future. It actually might require the government to step in to create a standard for battery sizes and connections for removal for swapping and to require a certain number of vehicles in their fleet to be swappable.

First, let me say I like the idea of swappable batteries, but I see some problems with it (that may have already been overcome as I'm no expert on the subject)

I'm not so sure it will become the best model. Since some huge percent of charging is done "at home", it's likely battery swapping would just replace DCFC on the road for most owners. What I would see as an issue is as the battery fleet gets older, swapping becomes a way of "cheating" the system.

I have a battery that has diminished life. I go to a "swap" station get a battery that is better than the one I have, and never swap again. Now the station has my bad battery and I have a fresh one.

I'm sure there is something in the process that prevents that, but I'm not going to want to be the guy that gets the old battery when I'm on a road trip. I'd rather have "my" battery that I know the range of, than some battery that is unknown to me.

Seems like, in this case, you would have more batteries being retired than not as the "swappable" batteries will have to meet a relatively high standard of percent charge, and folks are going to want them at 100% when swapped, not the more common 80% when charging at home.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

First, let me say I like the idea of swappable batteries, but I see some problems with it (that may have already been overcome as I'm no expert on the subject)

I'm not so sure it will become the best model. Since some huge percent of charging is done "at home", it's likely battery swapping would just replace DCFC on the road for most owners. What I would see as an issue is as the battery fleet gets older, swapping becomes a way of "cheating" the system.

I have a battery that has diminished life. I go to a "swap" station get a battery that is better than the one I have, and never swap again. Now the station has my bad battery and I have a fresh one.

I'm sure there is something in the process that prevents that, but I'm not going to want to be the guy that gets the old battery when I'm on a road trip. I'd rather have "my" battery that I know the range of, than some battery that is unknown to me.

Seems like, in this case, you would have more batteries being retired than not as the "swappable" batteries will have to meet a relatively high standard of percent charge, and folks are going to want them at 100% when swapped, not the more common 80% when charging at home.

Companies that provide swapping like Nio have business models built around swapping where the car and battery are two separate purchases: the car can be bought/leased complete without the ability to use swapping stations; the car can be bought without a battery, and the battery is leased/swappable with the option to buy a battery in the future; or the whole car is leased/swappable. If someone wants to buy a battery and quit the subscription for swapping then they probably will buy a new battery, or maybe they can buy a battery that used like buying a used car. It isn't really isn't much more complicated than the current car market.

I don't really believe your scenario is likely to happen because the providers of swapping services will have already worked things out. The battery will have its own VIN, and they will know what you have in your car, so if you want to cancel your swapping subscription and keep the new battery then you will just have to pay for keeping that new battery or get a used battery. You won't own any battery you previously used like how you don't own a song you listened to on Apple Music when you finally decided to buy that song in the iTunes Store.

Like buying premium gas, you can buy a premium battery in terms of capacity or power density. This could be a 100kWh battery instead of a 65kWh battery, or it could be a battery at 80-100% charge instead of 50% charge. Maybe you want the big battery at 100kWh for your roadtrip, but you will be leaving in the morning and will charge it at home, so you only need one that is at 50% charge. So many options in terms of needs and how to save/spend.

The benefits of swapping have huge, extremely huge benefits, that shouldn't be overlooked. If manufactures had a single standard then third party manufactures and swapping station owners could provide services that would greatly open the market for competition and decrease costs that much more. Swapping allows people to drive cars with smaller batteries to suit daily needs that are much lighter, which increases efficiency and decreases our material needs at the cost of the car. Battery swapping is typically as fast or faster than filling up with gas, especially on big vehicles like trucks, as the battery size shouldn't reflect any difference in the speed of the swap, and because of this, range anxiety would be non-existent. This also allows us to focus on battery chemistry that is best for longevity, low fire risk, cheap and sustainable than having to use the latest and greatest chemistry for maximum range/power density. Swapping would be a game changer for the shipping industry and for towing/large trucks. Swapping could allow a person to keep their car far longer than a typical ICE car because the rest of the components like the EV motors and electronics would likely last far longer; brakes already last for a long time, so maybe suspension, tires, basics could mean a person (if they so choose) could drive the same car for 30-50+ years.

[Sasquachulator]

I dont know where to post this, but i didnt want to make a new post cuz by itself its somewhat irrelevant....

I actually saw a white Subaru Solterra on the road today. I did not expect to see one in the wild yet (I see plenty of EV's around, mostly Teslas. But i have seen an Ioniq 5, an Ioniq 6, Kia niro, i think ive seen an ID.4, plenty of leafs).
It was fairly invisible, just kind of like an Electric Rav4. For all its wierd styling and cladding and whatnot, as a whole it doesnt really look all that wierd and oddball, so it doesnt make you do a double take.

As much as the smug EV evangelists like to shit on this car (and Toyota in general for their relative lack of actual EVs) all the reviews seem to indicate its a fairly good car...just not all that impressive as an EV since its EV specs are kind of on the bottom end of the scale.

To be honest why the hell would you even get an EV with such middling specs, like a Leaf or a Bolt or something. Its gonna be outdated after a few years if it isnt already. If i wanted a cheap used EV im not even looking at a Leaf or a Bolt or a Fiat500e or something of the like with the middling less than 200km's range. the BZ4X/Solterra/Lexus RZ seems to fall in that category. They're rated at 300kms-400kms. Its passable now but it'll be outdated on the used market in a few years. Its like smartphones. Nowadays they're so powerful that the only reason you have them is because they're newer. Im still using an iphone 8 and theres really no reason for me to get a new phone unless i want new tech....performance wise its perfectly fine for me.
an EV is gonna be the same, they'll hit a point where the range will be more than acceptable, and just be longer after that which usually ends up being kind of pointless. (My personal minimum target is at 500kms range, roughly 450 in winter, like my 86 gets). And the older ones will just fade to irrelevance.

I find it funny that i actually see this car in the wild far quicker than i did seeing my first Nissan Z in the wild lol.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Companies that provide swapping like Nio have business models built around swapping where the car and battery are two separate purchases: the car can be bought/leased complete without the ability to use swapping stations; the car can be bought without a battery, and the battery is leased/swappable with the option to buy a battery in the future; or the whole car is leased/swappable. If someone wants to buy a battery and quit the subscription for swapping then they probably will buy a new battery, or maybe they can buy a battery that used like buying a used car. It isn't really isn't much more complicated than the current car market.

I don't really believe your scenario is likely to happen because the providers of swapping services will have already worked things out. The battery will have its own VIN, and they will know what you have in your car, so if you want to cancel your swapping subscription and keep the new battery then you will just have to pay for keeping that new battery or get a used battery. You won't own any battery you previously used like how you don't own a song you listened to on Apple Music when you finally decided to buy that song in the iTunes Store.

Like buying premium gas, you can buy a premium battery in terms of capacity or power density. This could be a 100kWh battery instead of a 65kWh battery, or it could be a battery at 80-100% charge instead of 50% charge. Maybe you want the big battery at 100kWh for your roadtrip, but you will be leaving in the morning and will charge it at home, so you only need one that is at 50% charge. So many options in terms of needs and how to save/spend.

The benefits of swapping have huge, extremely huge benefits, that shouldn't be overlooked. If manufactures had a single standard then third party manufactures and swapping station owners could provide services that would greatly open the market for competition and decrease costs that much more. Swapping allows people to drive cars with smaller batteries to suit daily needs that are much lighter, which increases efficiency and decreases our material needs at the cost of the car. Battery swapping is typically as fast or faster than filling up with gas, especially on big vehicles like trucks, as the battery size shouldn't reflect any difference in the speed of the swap, and because of this, range anxiety would be non-existent. This also allows us to focus on battery chemistry that is best for longevity, low fire risk, cheap and sustainable than having to use the latest and greatest chemistry for maximum range/power density. Swapping would be a game changer for the shipping industry and for towing/large trucks. Swapping could allow a person to keep their car far longer than a typical ICE car because the rest of the components like the EV motors and electronics would likely last far longer; brakes already last for a long time, so maybe suspension, tires, basics could mean a person (if they so choose) could drive the same car for 30-50+ years.

for the time being, it seems like ev companies just simply need to figure out how to maintain the existing charging station network.

i have very little faith that a common-type battery will ever exist. every brand is too far different between connectors, voltages, and packaging styling.

do you recall what a fiasco V2V communication that-never-came-to-be was for the last 30 years? the US government even came together enough to have a specific part of the radio frequency spectrum allotted for it even. there were very few downsides to the idea, and would've definitely helped people be more informed in traffic situations.

but we never even got V2V within the same brands worked out enough that it passed the conceptual phase.

myself, now working on ford and international/chevy trucks, the entire build process and materials used is entirely different. they all accomplish the same end-goal of a functional vehicle, but the design goals and processes used to meet that end-goal are not compatible at all with each other.

to get a cross-compatible battery design would require brand collaboration to an extent that makes V2V communication look like childs play.

[Irace86.2.0]

Same time as a Ferrari Enzo.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by soundman98

for the time being, it seems like ev companies just simply need to figure out how to maintain the existing charging station network.

i have very little faith that a common-type battery will ever exist. every brand is too far different between connectors, voltages, and packaging styling.

do you recall what a fiasco V2V communication that-never-came-to-be was for the last 30 years? the US government even came together enough to have a specific part of the radio frequency spectrum allotted for it even. there were very few downsides to the idea, and would've definitely helped people be more informed in traffic situations.

but we never even got V2V within the same brands worked out enough that it passed the conceptual phase.

myself, now working on ford and international/chevy trucks, the entire build process and materials used is entirely different. they all accomplish the same end-goal of a functional vehicle, but the design goals and processes used to meet that end-goal are not compatible at all with each other.

to get a cross-compatible battery design would require brand collaboration to an extent that makes V2V communication look like childs play.

My guess is that if any manufacturers see the success Nio has made with battery swapping, and if they want to differentiate themselves, they could collaborate with multiple manufacturers on a shared standard for charging.

Manufacturers already work together to build cars on a shared platform like the 86, and manufacturers also invest together like Toyota owning Subaru stock or Toyota and GM having a shared manufacturing plant before Tesla owned it. Modular platforms can often be involved in multiple models across multiple brands like VAG and the Jetta, Golf, Tiguan, TT, A3, Q3, etc. With the skateboard design, there are even more opportunities to create a similar standard. The government could make it happen faster, but collaborations for a shared standard will happen at some scale in order to have battery swapping and in order to share in the investment in building a swapping network. Especially when multiple companies will be sourcing batteries from third party manufacturers/suppliers.

[Irace86.2.0]

[NoHaveMSG]

My favorite part of that car is the name.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

My favorite part of that car is the name.

Love how they keep referring to the Z06 as a "dedicated track car" as if Dark Helmet wasn't built for the exact same purpose.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Love how they keep referring to the Z06 as a "dedicated track car" as if Dark Helmet wasn't built for the exact same purpose.

Yeah, that thing is a straight up weapon. They really did a great job with it.

[Irace86.2.0]

GM to use Tesla charging network, joining Ford in leveraging the EV leader's tech

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/08/gm-t...g-network.html

More big news. Looks like GM will be adding Tesla ports to its future vehicles and Tesla software to be able to use Tesla’s charging network.