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Old 03-28-2020, 02:37 PM   #1
Meeson
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Audio Upgrade Plan - Double Checks Wanted

Hi all! First post here but I've been browsing for a month or so. Anyway, I got my FRS a few months ago and I love everything about it except for the interior "amenities." Missing the point of the car, I know, but personal opinions and all.

So my current plan is to add about 60lbs of dynamat to the car to make it less tinny and improve sound in general. While everything is disassembled, I am going to attempt to either improve the factory mounting hardware for the majority of the interior panels or add foam tape to reduce all the rattling. I am also planning on upgrading the factory audio system slightly and this is where my knowledge runs low, especially with the FRS's funky audio setup. With that said, here is what I have planned so far. I would like for someone who knows what they are doing to tell me if it will work or not. It is also important to me that the majority of the wiring be reversible, and I would like to avoid running any new wire, though I know this means some compromises.

What I have picked out so far is:

Dash Speakers
- Memphis Audio SRX42
- 20W RMS + 4 OHM
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_953SRX...42.html?tp=102

Dash Tweeters
- Plan to keep stock ones??

Door Speakers
- Kicker 43DSC6504
- Up to 60W RMS 2 way(will my amp kill these?)
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_206DSC...04.html?tp=105

Rear Speakers
- Memphis Audio SRX42
- 20W RMS + 4 OHM
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_953SRX...42.html?tp=102

Amp
- Infinity Primus 6002A
- 2 channel, 60W RMSx2 + 4ohm
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_108P60....html?tp=35757

Head Unit
- Where I'm going to catch a lot of flak because these HU aren't great.
- Want to use so that factory fit/finish is obtainable and for ability to power dash/rear speakers with factory wiring, while also getting a touchscreen and eventually navigation, though I'm unsure how to achieve the last part.
- 2016 Scion tC HU w/ Nav
- Supposed to have exact same connectors as the 2013 FRS HU and same shape as 2015 BRZ radio. If not, can always go to a 2015 BRZ HU

https://www.ebay.com/itm/16-2016-Sci...8AAOSwkold4cGO

Here is how I think the wiring is currently laid out, and also I how I want to have everything connected:
(the attached image)

Obviously this is somewhat budget ($400 - ish for audio alone.)
I would appreciate if anyone can tell me if there is anything obviously wrong with this setup. I've pieced together information from dozens of forum posts and the few wiring diagrams available to get to this point so it would not surprise me if some major assumptions are wrong here.
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Old 03-28-2020, 03:25 PM   #2
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Welcome Meeson!

Perhaps you are aware of this but contrary to your diagram, the factory head unit has four speaker outputs:

Front Left and Right
Rear Left and Right

The dash 4" mid-range and tweeters along with the feed to the amp in the trunk that drives the door speakers are all connected to the HU front speaker output.

The rear seat 4" speakers (identical to the dash 4" by the way) are driven by the HU rear speaker output.

Check out this post for more info:
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...7&postcount=35
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Old 03-28-2020, 05:01 PM   #3
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how did you come up with the components you listed? do you have a preference for them for any specific reason(had/heard them in the past, like the brand, etc)?

you links are all to crutchfield, do you plan to order through crutchfield?

i understand the desire for the factory fit/finish on the radio, have you considered some of the 200mm aftermarket radio's that are on the market, and crossed them off the list for some reason?

your goal is to keep to a $400 budget for the audio portion of the build?

are you installing yourself, or are you factoring in having a shop do the work?

what do you hope to achieve/fix with installing all this new gear?

what do you listen to?

i think that's enough questions for now i definitely love playing with the audio on a budget though!
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Old 03-28-2020, 07:55 PM   #4
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LimitedSlip, that is 90% new information to me so thank you!

and Soundman, to answer your questions,

1. I picked the components listed because they were the highest rated and lowest priced parts that would do the job, based on the numbers seeming to be right-ish

2. I linked to crutchfield for everything because I like crutchfield's website for shopping for the audio components. I will buy from whichever website has the best deal on my components.

3. The main reason I didn't look very much into aftermarket 200mm's, or any aftermarket HU's in general, is because I wanted to maintain whatever system Scion had in place for powering the dash speakers and rear speakers. The secondary reason is that the only aftermarket HU's I could find that didn't either look or feel janky would be at least the cost of my build alone.

4. $400 for just the audio components.

5. Installing myself.

6. I want to make the car a more pleasant place to be when I'm on long trips and don't have time to take back roads and use the car like it is supposed to be used. I'd also like to have a little higher sound quality because the sound quality is currently worse than a 2013 corolla's sound quality to me.

7. Every variety of metal, hard rock, "indie music", EDM occasionally, podcasts.

Hope that tells you something useful!
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Old 03-29-2020, 11:42 PM   #5
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sorry, i was watching for the response, but it got lost in my new posts button somewhere


Quote:
Originally Posted by Meeson View Post
1. I picked the components listed because they were the highest rated and lowest priced parts that would do the job, based on the numbers seeming to be right-ish

4. $400 for just the audio components.

6. I want to make the car a more pleasant place to be when I'm on long trips and don't have time to take back roads and use the car like it is supposed to be used. I'd also like to have a little higher sound quality because the sound quality is currently worse than a 2013 corolla's sound quality to me.

7. Every variety of metal, hard rock, "indie music", EDM occasionally, podcasts.
so the first thing that should be dropped is the amp. it's $100 that would add a lot of complexity to what should be more along the lines of an "oem+" type system without the mark-up. they don't make 'amplifier replacement harnesses', so you'd have no choice but to be cutting and splicing into the factory wiring to install it otherwise, and that breaks your first rule.

the second thing that should change is the 2-way door speakers. in the oem setup, the door speakers act as subwoofers. there is no benefit to the speaker having a tweeter, it won't ever be used.


for future reference, the oem setup is set so that the front speaker outputs of the radio go into the tweeter first, which has 4 connections on it-- 2 pairs of shorted connections. one is the input, the other is the output to the 3" midrange driver next to it.

the tweeters have a 2.7uF/50v capacitor (@ 4ohm, that's 14,500hz 6db/oct), and front/rear midranges are all 4 ohm, the front midranges have a 10uF/100v capacitor(@4ohm, that's 4000hz 6db/oct).

that's really, really high. i don't like that at all. the tweeter should be plenty capable at 4000hz, and the mid should be somewhere closer to 500-800hz...

all that said/discovered, the first problem is that they don't make plug-n-play connectors for the dash tweeters. the midrange speaker might be the same connector, but if you replace the tweeter, which is absolutely something i would want to do...

the next problem is that if you want to stick with car audio specific speaker brands, car audio is and has become smoke, mirrors and "wink, wink, trust us". the better options are price-locked well above $200/pr designs for no fundamental reason than marketing jargon and to convince one to spend more.

the speakers you linked to are the lowest tier the brands offer, in many ways intentionally, and as such are intentionally cheap. i'm not fully convinced they're an upgrade, they're more of a side-grade. where you trade one set of problems with the oem set for another set of problems.

car audio:
the memphis' will function as needed, but they're intentionally cheap. they're replacements, not upgrades. i would recommend something similar that has a rubber surround instead of a foam surround-- foam surrounds rot out over time. at this price point, the overall features are the same, so brand doesn't really matter a whole lot...

the kickers i would not recommend-- they are 4 ohm, and to replace the oem speakers, you require a 2 ohm design. this limits you down to jbl and infinity offerings, all of which are slightly more than what the kickers are. infinity's generally have a very nice bass to them though. you might have to go with a coaxial there just to save the money.

alternative #1, make the oem better:
if you're handy with a soldering iron and not opposed to a few parts you could install different filtering capacitors on all the front speakers-- cross the tweeters over lower-- around 5000hz, as well as the dash speakers around 600hz, but also add a 50-70hz high pass to the door speakers, they're all but useless below 50hz anyways, and allowing them to constantly try to reproduce subwoofer frequencies they can't is only creating tons of vibration issues. this option would be about $50 total for the capacitors and maybe a long afternoon of work.

alternative #2, speakers, drop the car:
what's a speaker? it's composed of a thin flexible material, attached to a coil of wire that is placed by a magnet. an electrical signal goes through the coil, and makes that material vibrate. this isn't rocket science..

this is the route i've taken for the last 10 years after i got tired of the marketing voodoo, unnecessary price gouging, and limited information on what makes a $400 car audio speaker 'better' than a $60 version.

dash:

$24/pr:https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...river--295-154

$30/pr: https://www.parts-express.com/tecton...-ohm--297-2164

$42/pr:https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...4-ohm--295-380

$48/pr:https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...8-ohm--295-349 (note, these will be slightly quieter due to being 8 ohm instead of 4 ohm)

with all of these options, i would recommend at least a 500hz minimum crossover.
$18/pr: https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...tave--260-1762

door:
unfortunately, there aren't any 2 ohm drivers i can find anywhere worth recommending. so there's no choice but to step up to 4 ohm alternatives. what i've learned to specifically look for in midbass/bass drivers is something in the description that talks about having 'shorting rings' in the motor structure. it greatly reduces low end distortion, making for a happier speaker, and better sound.

$72/pr: https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...4-ohm--295-372

$112/pr: https://www.parts-express.com/peerle...-ohm--264-1148



Quote:
Originally Posted by Meeson View Post
2. I linked to crutchfield for everything because I like crutchfield's website for shopping for the audio components. I will buy from whichever website has the best deal on my components.
ok, just making sure. i've met many people that insist on using crutchfield due to their more customer-oriented take on sales, i just try to make sure that they're aware that there are increased costs to that service that are reflected in their price-- which i'm comfortable recommending if all this is new, or you're unsure of the steps that need to be taken, but i don't get that vibe from you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meeson View Post
3. The main reason I didn't look very much into aftermarket 200mm's, or any aftermarket HU's in general, is because I wanted to maintain whatever system Scion had in place for powering the dash speakers and rear speakers. The secondary reason is that the only aftermarket HU's I could find that didn't either look or feel janky would be at least the cost of my build alone.
yeah, $400 would be achievable with a non-nav stereo, but that doesn't suit your requirements.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Meeson View Post
5. Installing myself.
don't forget brackets! the door speakers especially are going to need them. the dash speakers will likely need some sort of fab work as well.
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Old 03-30-2020, 03:40 PM   #6
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I think 4 x 3-3.5" fullrange with good passive crossovers and sound deadening to stop the door's buzzing and you got a much better sounding sound system with careful selection of parts for less than $150. It's also a good starting point for upgrade and you can easily add to it.

I have the $12 speakers listed by soundman with the 800hz inline crossover and it's a noticeable Improvement in sound clarity, but the buzzing doors begin to get highlighted. This is where the sound deadening comes in. The factory woofers are actually not bad looking and the output matches the new dash speakers well if you remove the door buzzing at higher volumes.
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Old 03-30-2020, 06:16 PM   #7
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if you go to a craft store like micheals or joann fabrics, they have self-adhesive felt in 1'x1' squares that works great for vibration dampening.
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Old 03-30-2020, 06:54 PM   #8
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okay then $100 bux should do the trick. If you go with the one I have plus crossovers x 4 = $56 + $8 for a big piece of abs plastic if you don't have anything else handy to make an adapter. Now I have enough for $36 worth of felt from Joanne's.
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Old 03-30-2020, 11:47 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundman98 View Post
with all of these options, i would recommend at least a 500hz minimum crossover.
$18/pr: https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...tave--260-1762



I'm really intrigued now. What else would I need to purchase to have those passive crossovers work with an aftermarket amp? Planning on having a local shop install if that matters.
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Old 03-31-2020, 12:36 AM   #10
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I'm really intrigued now. What else would I need to purchase to have those passive crossovers work with an aftermarket amp? Planning on having a local shop install if that matters.
If you're going to run an aftermarket amp, it would be preferable to use the amp's built in crossover, or consider other active crossover options that cut the signal down to the essential part before amplification.

Passive crossovers do cost some output to do their job. In this case, a passive crossover was recommended due to utilizing the factory deck output which has no other option for crossover control.
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Old 03-31-2020, 12:49 AM   #11
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@soundman98 I noticed you recommended a much nicer looking crossover than what I have. It's beneficial for sound quality to have -12 db/octave between the crossover points? I'm sure there is a very good reason to go with a bulkier one over a simple capacitor.


Edit: Dont mean to threadjack, but this info should benefit both of us.
https://jlaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us...ng-Crossovers-

According to this you can actually compound the effect of multiple crossover (not recommended), but give you another way to fine tune if you want to get OCD with it.
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mme4_kpljAQ"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mme4_kpljAQ[/ame]
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Old 03-31-2020, 03:27 PM   #12
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I won't know how to thank posts but thank you! I think I am going to go the route suggested by soundman98. I will post when I've gotten everything set up. I was going to start this project immediately as I have nothing better to do while cooped up teleworking, waiting for this pandemic to die down, but I'm going to save my pennies until after the peak just in case I end up needing them. I plan to update this in May, thanks to everyone for the great advice though! Especially for giving me actual numbers to work with, most posts I've seen use vague terms so having the numbers lets me actually do the math, which is very helpful.
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Old 03-31-2020, 05:44 PM   #13
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Quote:
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@soundman98 I noticed you recommended a much nicer looking crossover than what I have. It's beneficial for sound quality to have -12 db/octave between the crossover points? I'm sure there is a very good reason to go with a bulkier one over a simple capacitor.
i recommended those boards simply because connecting a board is a little more professional than soldering and hot gluing capacitors to terminals that do a similar job.

a 12db crossover is going to have a sharper transition between drivers. generally, it's not much of a problem, but sometimes it's preferable to use a 6db crossover to blend the drivers tones better. i generally stick to 12db crossovers for most of what i do because it's steep enough, and i haven't had any significant issues doing so. but my first major build in high school used 6db crossovers because it was on a budget, and i had very few issues with that system...

but on the other side, my peerless 6.5" hds nomex's don't like crossovers at all. they're happiest with a fullrange signal. but i keep a 6db/oct filter at 50hz on them because it's stupid to try to allow them to reach any lower than 40hz at full tilt. because of the shorting rings, they will play a 30hz tone without distorting at otherwise insane levels--you feel the door shaking and the air moving, but there's almost no audible sound coming from them due to the physics of a too small of a cone moving too small of a distance to create the waveform.
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Old 03-31-2020, 08:03 PM   #14
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That's good to know. I had no idea about that behavior a low frequencies based cone area. And of course I was looking at the specs on that peerless driver pretty impressive low range on the spec sheet.

I had this woofer in a .31 sqft enclosure as first choice if I want to extend the low range sound. Numbers look like a perfect match for me including the price, but it does extend smoothly to the high range like a fullrange speaker. I want the bass to extend low but not enough to rattle my panels loose. I like tight bass that feels like someone is jabbing you in the chest, not the boomy rattle my panels and my fillings loose type bass.

I like that this peerless woofer does not need a crossover, cause it opens up possiblities to wire the rear channel power. you can send the same signal to the woofer and rear channels and still have higher frequency signals going to rear fill speakers while powering your bass maker at the same time. Like 2 8 ohm rears wired to a 2 or 4ohm sub and adjust attenuation between the sub and mids via eq. Is here a way to see how a woofer might behave when sent a full range signal and if it will be fine from the response graphs? Something that drops off in output at the mid frequencies like this peerless woofer?
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