All season vs Summer Tires

[Calum]

I hate this conversation. I love that everyone is having it, but I hate that there just isn't any way to come to an objective conclusion. Tire rack's testing data is the best I know of, but even then the noise, comfort, and feel are all subjective. MPSS are supposed to be quiet. Everyone says they're super quiet. Now that the MPS4S are out, they're even quieter. The Conti ECS are supposed to be quieter than the MPSS as well. Well, I've driven on two of those three and both were so damn loud I have a headache after just half an hour of driving and need to have my stock 2013 FRS stereo at 30 just to hear the music. These aren't quiet. But I just don't know how much of a difference another class of tire would make without buying them and driving them.

I want to maintain most of the grip, feel, and responsiveness of the MPSS or ECS, but I would happily lose some of it to get something that is legitimately quiet.

Conversely, my Golf came with Ecopia tires, size 195/65/15. They actually have pretty decent grip for what they are and the car they're on. I'd be fine with maintaining that grip level on that car, though an upgrade would still be welcome. I also loved how quiet they are. But the steering feel with them is abysmal. I've never driving anything that felt so isolated from the road. I have a set of 16" rims for that car to help add some steering feel, and I'll be adding tires with more feel, but I have no idea how far up the ladder to go. Do I put all season touring tires on it? Summer touring tires? UHP A/Ss? Something else? I just don't know and tires typically last me 4 years. So whatever I go with I'm stuck with for four years.

I'd pay a fair amount of money to be able to test several different tires and figure out what exactly I want without having to depend on someone else's subjective opinion of them on a different car.

*while I live in a place that gets actual 4 seasons, I run winter tires exclusively during the winter. Whatever I pick will not see snow, so it's more about climate and driving style. Also, I don't track my cars and if I did I'd be buying tires and rims specifically for that purpose. My budget for tires isn't the limiting factor for either car.

[churchx]

If you track yours, you are stuck with tires for just one summer

[Calum]

Originally Posted by churchx

If you track yours, you are stuck with tires for just one summer

Fair point. Lol

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Calum

I'd pay a fair amount of money to be able to test several different tires and figure out what exactly I want without having to depend on someone else's subjective opinion of them on a different car.
.

That would be ideal but even with that, unless it is a blind test, the marginal differences in tires could very well come down again to opinion and preconceived notions. You expect tire A to be better, so it will feel better. It is very hard to be objective when talking in the marginal differences.

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

That would be ideal but even with that, unless it is a blind test, the marginal differences in tires could very well come down again to opinion and preconceived notions

Plus most people compare tires as they replace them, comparing the old worn tire to the new fresh tire. Since tires (like suspension) degrade very gradually, it's hard to notice a tire's performance degrading over time, thus changing to a fresh tire would almost always be an improvement. But a similar improvement would be had getting the exact same tire as before.

I trust numbers more than subjective reports, although if the same subjective impressions turn out in every tire comparison test I would give them some credibility as well.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Calum

I want to maintain most of the grip, feel, and responsiveness of the MPSS or ECS, but I would happily lose some of it to get something that is legitimately quiet.

Unfortunately, although there are some tires that do a *lot* of things very well, it's going to be super-tough to find a car that is both *responsive* (stiff) and *quiet* (softer). Again, I wouldn't trust "customer survey results" absolutely, but for something like NOISE, it's really probably the best place to go for info.

...I have no idea how far up the ladder to go. Do I put all season touring tires on it? Summer touring tires? UHP A/Ss? Something else? I just don't know and tires typically last me 4 years. So whatever I go with I'm stuck with for four years.

See post #16 in this thread for UHP A/S tires ranked by noise. The *best* for noise Pirelli Pzero All Season Plus rates 8.6/10 on "noise", vs. 8.8/10 for MPS4S. But different categories are likely to have different standards, so not necessarily directly comparable...

If you go to lower-performance, more comfort-oriented category like "Grand Touring All Season", I bet the tires are *generally* quieter. Bridgestone Turanza QuietTrack and Pirelli Cinturato P7 All Season Plus II are rated 9.5/10 and 9.4/10 for noise in a category where people likely expect tires to be much quieter vs. more performance oriented categories. But I wouldn't expect much in the handling-feel department from either of them, no matter how highly-rated they are "in category"!

I think I'm partly deaf in critical frequency ranges from dailying an S2000 on Max Perf, Extreme Perf, and RComps for years and years, I never had any problem with the noise of serious track tires on my BRZ!

[Calum]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

That would be ideal but even with that, unless it is a blind test, the marginal differences in tires could very well come down again to opinion and preconceived notions. You expect tire A to be better, so it will feel better. It is very hard to be objective when talking in the marginal differences.

I'd be more concerned with testing different categories, not every model from a particular category.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Calum

I'd be more concerned with testing different categories, not every model from a particular category.

Honestly, if you found the MPSS and Conti ECS to be too loud, I don't think you're going to find any *performance* tire that's quiet enough. IMO best bet for minimal noise with some modicum of "performance" and feel, Pirelli Cinturato P7 All Season Plus II
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=261
"...noise levels so satisfyingly low, at times it was difficult to perceive over traffic and wind noise."

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Calum

I hate this conversation. I love that everyone is having it, but I hate that there just isn't any way to come to an objective conclusion. Tire rack's testing data is the best I know of, but even then the noise, comfort, and feel are all subjective.

you're absolutely right, but for better or worse, the tire rack testing and reviews are some of the best/consistent i've come across. when they pick 4 tires to compare to each other, they routinely are the tires that top that specific category. and they do test those 4 tires in a consistent method that at the very least offers a fair comparison between those 4 tires.

every tire i've ordered, i do so in confidence that i have knowingly given up certain aspects of peak performance for average or above average performance in other area's that the other compared tires aren't competitive in.

but something tire rack doesn't do is run tires through the full depth of a tires tread wear. and many tires do have odd grip, noise, and wear characteristics that can become undesirable later on.

for that, i turn to the customer reviews. i generally ignore any of the reviews that are posted within the first 10k miles of any tires life. they're all positive unless there's a road hazard/mfg defect, because the people were on nearly bald tires before... flats happen, any tire is going be relatively well behaved with that much tread contrasted with a nearly-bald tire.

the customer reviews that i pay attention to are the one's from 10-40k mi. many of them comparing that specific tire attributes to the performance of their previous set of tire(s), including how the tire wears, grips, and changes noise levels over it's full tread height. just as many people are just as critical and evaluative of any tires characteristics, many choosing a different tire for the next set not for unhappiness, but for furthering the chance to look for something better.

i've been completely happy with my bfg comp 2a/s'. i'm still surprised with how much grip that they have at the tread level they're currently at, wet or dry. i'm quickly coming up on the time to replace them, and it leaves me extremely conflicted with the choice of going with what i know and already choose to be the best, or decide to find something that is marginally better in a different characteristic but still offers adequate all-season performance.

overall, it's the same as internet forums. tire racks official knowledge and track time comparisons are what initially appeal to me with solid, comparable numbers, but the unsolicited brutally honest customer reviews across a wide array of real world scenario's, vehicles, and conditions are what seal the deal and keep me going to tire rack for information and the final purchase.

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by Calum

Do I put all season touring tires on it? Summer touring tires? UHP A/Ss? Something else? I just don't know and tires typically last me 4 years. So whatever I go with I'm stuck with for four years.

*while I live in a place that gets actual 4 seasons, I run winter tires exclusively during the winter. Whatever I pick will not see snow, so it's more about climate and driving style.

Let's talk about climate. It was 2C first this in the morning with a high of 24C. IMHO summer tires are a pain in the arse with a climate like this. There's plenty of driving time before winter hits but driving on a summer tire at 2C is not a great idea. If you do they feel like hockey pucks. Better hope it doesn't rain!


I have a set of Indy 500's on the car now. I will never buy a set of summer tires again for the street.

I also have track tires that are stored in a climate controlled area.

[Ernest72]

Originally Posted by new2subaru

Let's talk about climate. It was 2C first this in the morning with a high of 24C. IMHO summer tires are a pain in the arse with a climate like this. There's plenty of driving time before winter hits but driving on a summer tire at 2C is not a great idea. If you do they feel like hockey pucks. Better hope it doesn't rain!


I have a set of Indy 500's on the car now. I will never buy a set of summer tires again for the street.

I also have track tires that are stored in a climate controlled area.

Canada requires three sets. Summers, all seasons and then snows. Changing wheels and tires like Nascar.

[churchx]

Three sets required legally? Interesting, first time seeing/hearing such case. Most other countries with "real winter" make do with winter or at least all-seasons mandatory in winter with varying dates when one must make switch from summers. Never heard before about regulated three sets.

[guitarman]

Originally Posted by churchx

Three sets required legally? Interesting, first time seeing/hearing such case. Most other countries with "real winter" make do with winter or at least all-seasons mandatory in winter with varying dates when one must make switch from summers. Never heard before about regulated three sets.

I think ernest72 is yanking your driveshaft....

In many areas of Canada you could legally drive around on Summer Tires all year round if you wanted (although the insurance company might give you a hard time if you slid into something on a snow day running summer tires!)

In the part of Canada I live in I can drive everywhere all year round with all seasons. Some parts may require full snowies (and even chains) for some roads at some points of the year. No different than US, I don’t think.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

Canada requires three sets. Summers, all seasons and then snows. Changing wheels and tires like Nascar.

You're not wrong. My area sees highs of 30-35°C for a month and a half to two months, two months of -10 - 0°C days, and then the rest of the year it starts off low enough to question if the compound in an all season is getting too hard and ends hot enough to question if a summer tire compound would be getting soft enough.

UHP all seasons likely is the best way to go here for a 3 season tire.