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Old 07-09-2013, 02:42 PM   #1
Taber
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DI Failure Issue

So, I've been reading a number of threads on this, and I'm somewhat confused:

1)Is it the injectors that fail, or is it actually a seal that fails?

2)Are people just replacing the seal and remedying the problem?

3)If its just a seal replacement, is it an oem revised seal?
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Old 07-09-2013, 02:49 PM   #2
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we DON'T need another thread on this.

Read the existing threads, all the info is there (with multiple pictures). This post only further reduces the likely hood that the search feature will find relevant information.
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Old 07-09-2013, 02:51 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taber View Post
So, I've been reading a number of threads on this, and I'm somewhat confused:

1)Is it the injectors that fail, or is it actually a seal that fails?

2)Are people just replacing the seal and remedying the problem?

3)If its just a seal replacement, is it an oem revised seal?
See post #147.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...t=40951&page=7
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Old 07-09-2013, 03:03 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taber View Post
So, I've been reading a number of threads on this, and I'm somewhat confused:

1)Is it the injectors that fail, or is it actually a seal that fails?

2)Are people just replacing the seal and remedying the problem?

3)If its just a seal replacement, is it an oem revised seal?
1. Bad factory tune causes the seal to fail, which ultimately causes the injector to fail.

2. it's a bandaid.

3. no
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Old 07-09-2013, 03:06 PM   #5
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By Stu of gt86ownersclub.co.uk

Quote:
There's so much misinformation and paranoia floating around about this issue. The American forum has gone banzai about it without truly understanding the problem. I appreciate dealerships there are just as bad as here though with a) acknowledging a problem, b) understanding it and c) fixing it successfully (without taking your car on a 200+ mile jolly).

The issue is transient det damaging the seals. It's not when you lift the throttle the problem occurs, it's when you go back on it quickly. This is called "tip-in". When you rapidly change the throttle angle, you need "tip-in fuel" and "tip-in spark". Because sensors (and the ecu) takes a few milliseconds to react to these changes, you have to put in predictive tables which ensure the engine gets the right amount of fuel and spark during those big-change transient conditions.

Now our engines, with calibrations 700, and A00 DO have transient spark tables, however for some reason (which we will never understand/find out), the transient spark table was disabled above 5200rpm. This means that if you change gear rapidly above this engine speed you are able to 'get ahead' of the ECU and get a little crack of tip-in det/knock. This isn't usually dangerous, but it appears the seals used on the direct injectors (of which I am confident are perfectly up to the job) do not appreciate the det and over time wear and cause a leak and eventually total seal/injector failure requiring replacement.

The fix in calibration A01 is to move the upper bound remit of the transient spark table from 5200 rpm to 10000rpm (e.g. always) and the actual table itself has been populated with some meaningful spark angles so it does its job up top now its actually activated.

Here's a copy of the stock 700/A00 transient spark table, as you can see it's not doing any retarding over 4000rpm:



Here's a copy (leeched from ft86club) of the Toyota docs on the issue:



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Old 07-09-2013, 03:17 PM   #6
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Sounds like @CSG Mike mashes the gas pedal very quickly after an upshift
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Old 07-09-2013, 03:23 PM   #7
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Sounds like @CSG Mike mashes the gas pedal very quickly after an upshift
Sad part, is that it doesn't even have to be a mash... just enough to put a decent load...
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Old 07-09-2013, 03:39 PM   #8
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The question is how do you get this fixed by Subaru or Toyota dealership?
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Old 07-09-2013, 03:41 PM   #9
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The question is how do you get this fixed by Subaru or Toyota dealership?
You don't. They have not acknowledged that this is a real issue... i.e no TSB
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Old 07-09-2013, 04:02 PM   #10
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Quote:
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The question is how do you get this fixed by Subaru or Toyota dealership?
You can't.... yet. Unless you live overseas in an area where Toyota has released an updated ECU flash that specifically addresses this.
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Old 07-09-2013, 04:14 PM   #11
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By Stu of gt86ownersclub.co.uk
Awesome information. Thank you so much.
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Old 07-09-2013, 04:52 PM   #12
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Will running 100 octane at the track help? M
Decrease chance of detonation?
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Old 07-09-2013, 05:12 PM   #13
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So if I get this straight if you are above 5200rpm and do a fairly aggressive up-shift (say from 1st to 2nd) and step on the gas, you could cause the injectors to fail?
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Old 07-09-2013, 05:16 PM   #14
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So if I get this straight if you are above 5200rpm and do a fairly aggressive up-shift (say from 1st to 2nd) and step on the gas, you could cause the injectors to fail?
According to the article, 0.6s or less to upshift may cause damage to the seals.
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