2020 Toyota GR Supra Revealed!

[BA9092]

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2021...ails-pictures/

[gymratter]

https://www.thedrive.com/new-cars/33...u-want-to-know

No, I don't know why it's not called the Celica. These things aren't up to me.

For years, Toyota told us it wants three sports cars in its lineup, with the new six-cylinder Toyota Supra up top and the soon-to-be-replaced Toyota 86 as an entry point. It's fun to imagine the return of the MR2, but I'm not exactly holding my breath there. For now, we'll have to make do with this in the middle: the 2.0-liter turbocharged four-cylinder version of the Supra, new for 2021.

That's what I'm driving this weekend. What do you want to know about it?

I actually like the new Supra, and not just because I am paid to tell Jonathon Klein that his opinions are bad and wrong. I drove the car at its launch last year and found it to be powerful, swift, noisy, comfortable and loaded with competent tech. Sure, its BMW underpinnings aren't what we expected after two decades of asking for a new Supra, but I get the cost-saving reasons to have it share running gear with the new Z4. And that platform definitely gets the job done, despite lacking the manual transmission a proper sports car should still have.


We all know that in terms of sales, the sports car market isn't what it used to be. That's why the release of a 2.0-liter turbo four entry model Supra was kind of a surprise. You get identical looks and the same interior, and 219 fewer pounds for a curb weight of just 3,181 pounds.

And you get BMW's familiar modern twin-scroll turbo four, here rated at 255 horsepower 295 lb-ft of torque. This motor sees duty in the 330i and a bunch of other cars, and it happens to be quite good; all of BMW's crazy powerful M engines steal the spotlight, but this is a solidly potent engine that offers tons of everyday fun. Those weight savings are nice, too.

Strangely, the 2.0-liter Supra hasn't been released yet. The six-cylinder Supra starts at $49,990; my guess is this thing will be in the upper $30,000-range, and with my tester's Safety & Technology Package (radar cruise control, cross-traffic alert, emergency braking, etc.) I estimate something like a $42,000 price tag. We'll see.

Things I like so far:

• The smaller motor still has plenty of everyday power, and it keeps the Supra's booming, crackling exhaust notes. The sound is much better than I expected for an entry-level model.
• The interior, iDrive system, seats, and overall quality remain pretty sharp on the base car.
• It's a seriously good handler, though I'm not sure I'd rank it among the best you can buy right now.

Things I don't like as much:

• I still wish it had a real stick shift.
• Will it prove more fun on back roads than the smaller but harsher 86? I'm not sure yet.
• Unless the price is way lower than I'm estimating, it may just be worth it to go for the six-cylinder Supra.
• They should've called it the Celica.

Expect a review soon. In the meantime, what do you want to know about this thing?

[jflogerzi]

I just wish the 4 pot kept the diff and damping from the bigger brother. Seriously the look is growing on me for sure.

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by jflogerzi

I just wish the 4 pot kept the diff and damping from the bigger brother. Seriously the look is growing on me for sure.

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

Yeah, or that it was an optional package like it is in the Sport Pack that is offered in other countries.

The adaptive suspension, active diff and increased engine displacement makes the 3.0 the better value. I would have a hard time getting the 2.0 without those things.

[gymratter]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Yeah, or that it was an optional package like it is in the Sport Pack that is offered in other countries.

The adaptive suspension, active diff and increased engine displacement makes the 3.0 the better value. I would have a hard time getting the 2.0 without those things.

i think the issue is that Toyota didn't originally planned for the 2.0 to sold in North America. the Toyota insider said they were hoping to sell 5-6k units a year, but fell short with just 2,884 for 2019.

so i believe the people at the top are wondering "how can we reach our sales goal, lets just throw out the stripped out 2.0 for a few grand less". in doing so they kind of back themselves into a corner by pricing the base 3.0 relatively low (compare to other places like EU).

why didn't Toyota met their goal? pre-corona i would say the mark ups didn't help. only retards would pay $70k+ for one of these things. no manual trans also means they lost a certain percentage of buyers. the upcoming C8 with the unicorn $59.9k price tag have some cross shoppers holding off. also the one year delay by BMW probably didn't help. i think the car would have done better if it was released in 2018 as a 2019 model year, as in similarly pricing and performance to the C7; Toyota would probably have a better chance at selling more Supras at the point in time.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by gymratter

i think the issue is that Toyota didn't originally planned for the 2.0 to sold in North America. the Toyota insider said they were hoping to sell 5-6k units a year, but fell short with just 2,884 for 2019.

so i believe the people at the top are wondering "how can we reach our sales goal, lets just throw out the stripped out 2.0 for a few grand less". in doing so they kind of back themselves into a corner by pricing the base 3.0 relatively low (compare to other places like EU).

why didn't Toyota met their goal? pre-corona i would say the mark ups didn't help. only retards would pay $70k+ for one of these things. no manual trans also means they lost a certain percentage of buyers. the upcoming C8 with the unicorn $59.9k price tag have some cross shoppers holding off. also the one year delay by BMW probably didn't help. i think the car would have done better if it was released in 2018 as a 2019 model year, as in similarly pricing and performance to the C7; Toyota would probably have a better chance at selling more Supras at the point in time.

I totally agree, plus there are die-hard Toyota fans that didn't want a BMW engine or BMW interior, so that ate into sales, and the style of the car is very hit or miss, so that ate into sales. If the 2.0 is priced around $35-37k then I think the Supra will sell well. At that price, I could see some Camaro, Mustang, 370z shoppers hopping to the Supra for the name and slightly more luxury fit and finish. Higher, and the Supra might pick up a few people who want to own the name without the performance.

[BA9092]

Based on the auto news articles and videos I've been following since its debut, I speculate (not conclude) that it was the combination of scare tactics involving sales markups (especially when priced so close to the base C8), the controversial BMW influences and the lack of a manual transmission that contributed to the lower-than-anticipated sales figures.

We shall soon see what the differences on the track and road are between the A90 and A91 3.0 models. Slight improvements in driving dynamics not only from the extra 47hp and incentives rather than markups could help sales figures, especially in a post-COVID-19 economy.

The 2.0 is on another level and aimed towards a different demographic than the 3.0. Yes, I can see it being cross-shopped with the Mustang, Camaro and Challenger too - but the base models, not it's V8 brethren.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

At that price, I could see some Camaro, Mustang, 370z shoppers hopping to the Supra for the name and slightly more luxury fit and finish..

I don't know a single Camaro/Mustang owner that will trade to a 2 seater. Most of them actually use their back seats.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I don't know a single Camaro/Mustang owner that will trade to a 2 seater. Most of them actually use their back seats.

That’s honestly about the only thing keeping me out of a 987 Cayman.

[spike021]

Originally Posted by gymratter

why didn't Toyota met their goal? pre-corona i would say the mark ups didn't help. only retards would pay $70k+ for one of these things.

Agreed.

When they first showed up at a nearby dealer, I kept going back because coworkers wanted to check it out, and then friends wanted to check it out. I kept running into the same salesman and I believe they were trying to sell it for like 90k or something obscene, and the guy kept pushing how "it's a limited release with the special mirrors and X, Y, Z". I think one of my friends kept checking that dealer's inventory for several months and the same Supra just never sold.

Oh and you couldn't test drive without clear intent/downpayment to buy it.

Now, contrast that with Japan;

I visited a Toyota/GR Garage in Tokyo earlier this year. I was just checking out a Supra they had parked outside (it was the newer 2.0 I later found out). Despite a language barrier the guy let me sit inside right away without me even asking, and he sprinted off to the office to grab the key. And then handed me the key and nodded. So I asked if I could just rev it a bit, he said that was okay. And then once I did that he waited, clearly expecting me to drive off for a test drive, no questions asked. But I stupidly didn't have my international driver's permit that day and I didn't want to cause legal issues by driving off without one.

Sure you could say it's simply a cultural thing. But I'd be much more inclined to buy a car if the salesman was jovial, friendly, and had what some people call "a bias for action" (just doing what you can to make _it_ happen).

I live in "Silicon Valley" with plenty of BMW's, Porsches, twins, etc. And yet I've only ever seen one A90 since it came out, and it was likely a dealer car being driven around to get attention.

I guarantee it's because of the shit behavior of Toyota USA and/or the dealers themselves.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I don't know a single Camaro/Mustang owner that will trade to a 2 seater. Most of them actually use their back seats.

Ford Mustang production numbers have ranged from 75,000-125,000/year over the last five years. Camaro production numbers have ranged from 45,000-75,000/year over the last five years.

There were 2,800 Supras sold last year. You don't think there are a few thousand Mustang and Camaro buyers from the 150,000+ buyers who would cross shop a Supra, so Toyota could meet its sales goal of 5-6k/year?

[BA9092]

I'm sure sales will pick up. Especially with the new A91 3.0 and the introduction of the 2.0 as well. But, it's also not for everyone - the styling is a bit controversial, the lack of a manual, the ties with BMW and the whole "but it's not a true Supra" that came along with the partnership.

Last year, there was only one model to choose from.

Besides, the Camaro and Mustang have had a huge following since the 60s with no break in the model cycle, as far as I know off the bat. The Supra was dead from 1998 (at least in the US) until last year.

Also, the Mustang and Camaro have various engines, available in both hardtop and convertible form and offer the choice of a manual or automatic transmission in various models.

There are a lot more "flavors" to choose from there.

[gymratter]

too many people to quote, but agree with a lot of the above.

Toyota dropped the ball big time by not offering a manual. i bet they could have taken a few shares from the Vette with a MT version. there are a number of guys over on the Vette forum that are still throwing a fit over the lost of the front engine and MT. a classic example of Toyota not listening to buyers and forcing people to buy only what they are offering.

someone over on the MK5 forum came up with a good idea about the mark ups. ToyotaUSA could have allocated more units to dealers that were selling at MSRP / moving more units. there are still some LE sitting on dealer lots for $78k and $77k.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing

idk if many Camaro/Mustang owner will jump ship. just based on pricing alone the Camaro/Mustang 2.0 starts around $26k. MK5 insider is hinted at a $42k starting price tag for the 2.0 Supra. if true that's a $16k price gap.

styling wise, i like it overall. however, as many people have pointed out the fake vents are lame. interior is boring as hell. the mirrors are standard BMW units. nothing special. hell even the ones on the Camry look more sporty.

like with the MK4, timing isn't kind to the Supra. back to the C8. most Vettes sold are no where near the "$59.9k" base MSRP. i believe the average is like $75k. but the advised price for a C8 did its job and put a dent on Supra sales regardless.

lastly the 2.0 Supra is pretty controversial on the net. i think should it played it different for the US market.

1. call the damn thing a Celica and give it a different front and rear treatment. Firebird vs Trans AM

OR

2. keep the B58C as the base model. but take out more of the goodies (power/heated seats, leather, smaller wheels, etc)

[gymratter]

https://carbuzz.com/news/toyota-is-d...20-supra-stock

The price of the 2020 Toyota Supra has been slashed by thousands. But can you benefit?

High demand for the long-awaited 2020 Toyota GR Supra resulted in some outrageous dealer markups. But now that the reborn Japanese sports car has been on sale for over a year, discounts are becoming more common.

Last month, Toyota slashed the price of the 2020 Supra by $2,000 as part of a dealer cash incentive. And now a new discount is on the table, although it only applies to Toyota dealership employees. According to a bulletin sent to dealers in Southern California obtained by Cars Direct, Toyota is offering dealer employees a $5,000 discount off the Supra throughout May.

That brings the starting price of the GR Supra down to $44 990. Unlike a dealer cash incentive given to customers, the offer is classed as purchase assistance for dealer associates. No other Toyota model is available with such a large employee discount. It's also worth more than twice other Supra incentives that are currently available to customers.

There are a few reasons why Toyota could be offering such a hefty Supra discount to dealer employees. Last year, Toyota only sold 2,884 Supras, making it the automaker's lowest-volume passenger car after the Toyota Mirai, which isn't sold outside California. Toyota will also be keen to sell the remaining stock of the 2020 model, as the Supra is getting an update later this year for the 2021 model year.