follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Delicious Tuning
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Engine, Exhaust, Transmission

Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain.


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-20-2021, 05:49 AM   #1
pt1878
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Drives: 2018 BRZ tS
Location: Sydney, AU
Posts: 11
Thanks: 1
Thanked 9 Times in 1 Post
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
My FA20 NA Dyno Results and Analysis - Stock, 98 RON, and E85

Hi all, sent my car for a tune on 98 RON (Aus) (which is apparently equal to 93 over in the US) back 9 months ago. Just got it retuned for E85 (and flex). All in all, very happy with the results from Tunehouse Racing in Sydney. They use a Dynapack hub dyno.

Engine mods:
Grimmspeed Dry-con panel filter
Tomei UEL Catless headers
Invidia Q300 Cat-back
Zeitronix ECA-2 Ethanol Content Analyser

Typically, dyno results can vary wildly due to calibration differences or due to the type of dyno used, so what we always want to look for when comparing dyno results is the % difference. Luckily, it seems that between my first tune in March and my most recent tune, Tunehouse did a base run to calibrate the two 98 tunes. Hence I could combine the three runs together for comparison purposes. I painstakingly plotted out the dyno charts from Tunehouse as accurately as I could into Excel so that I could present it all on the one graph.

One note about my 'stock' run is that it was performed with all the bolt-ons already installed. Hence why I've labelled 'stock' in inverted commas.

Peak Torque:
'Stock' - 161.7 Nm (119.2 ft.lbf)
98 Tune - 183.2 Nm (135.1 ft.lbf) (113%)
E85 Tune - 207.3 Nm (152.9 ft.lbf) (128%; 113% of 98 Tune)

Peak Power:
'Stock' - 108.5 kW (145.4 hp)
98 Tune - 121.9 kW (168.5 hp) (112%)
E85 Tune - 141.4 kW (189.6 hp) (130%; 116% of 98 Tune)

Now, I've never been a huge fan of comparing peak torque and peak power so I integrated the torque curve to find out the increase in the area under the graph. Using this metric, I approximately calculated:

Area Under the Torque Graph (2000 - 7200 RPM)
'Stock' - 100%
98 Tune - 123%
E85 Tune - 136% (111% of 98 Tune)

Also interested in the increase in area relevant to your day to day driving

Area Under the Torque Graph (2000 - 4000 RPM)
'Stock' - 100%
98 Tune - 133%
E85 Tune - 149% (113% of 98 Tune)

Further analysis below:





Stock vs 98 Tune




98 Tune vs E85

pt1878 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to pt1878 For This Useful Post:
Dzmitry (11-24-2021), fableluke (11-22-2021), gen3v8 (12-18-2021), mrjj (12-01-2021), R2 (11-23-2021), Stonehorsw (11-24-2021), tomm.brz (11-20-2021), weederr33 (12-13-2021), whataboutbob (11-20-2021)
Old 11-20-2021, 05:54 AM   #2
Purist
Senior Member
 
Purist's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Drives: Subaru BRZ
Location: Australia
Posts: 349
Thanks: 125
Thanked 261 Times in 145 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Nice! Thanks for the detailed post. How good is Aussie E85!?! Guaranteed 107 octane!

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
__________________
Less More
Purist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2021, 05:58 AM   #3
pt1878
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Drives: 2018 BRZ tS
Location: Sydney, AU
Posts: 11
Thanks: 1
Thanked 9 Times in 1 Post
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I was a little dubious at first from the Whirlpool forums but the E85 from my local United was E82. Apparently for NA, above E50 suffers from the law of diminishing returns so I'm not too concerned. I'm yet to try an E50 blend though.
pt1878 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2021, 06:04 AM   #4
Purist
Senior Member
 
Purist's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Drives: Subaru BRZ
Location: Australia
Posts: 349
Thanks: 125
Thanked 261 Times in 145 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
This is worth a read. You might know it already but it discusses the diminishing returns concept you mentioned.

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/top...ink_source=app


How to run E85 on stock 86 BRZ FRS with OFT tune

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
__________________
Less More
Purist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2021, 06:23 AM   #5
pt1878
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Drives: 2018 BRZ tS
Location: Sydney, AU
Posts: 11
Thanks: 1
Thanked 9 Times in 1 Post
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purist View Post
This is worth a read. You might know it already but it discusses the diminishing returns concept you mentioned.
Thanks for the link, indeed I've seen that post. The threat of poor quality E85 is one of the reasons I chose to install a flex sensor. It's just good practice overall. I'll report back once I've had a chance to run E50.
pt1878 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2021, 06:25 AM   #6
Purist
Senior Member
 
Purist's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Drives: Subaru BRZ
Location: Australia
Posts: 349
Thanks: 125
Thanked 261 Times in 145 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Yeah keep us posted on that. Nothing like first hand data.

Have fun!

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
__________________
Less More
Purist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2021, 06:27 AM   #7
Lantanafrs2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: 2013 frs red
Location: South Florida
Posts: 3,517
Thanks: 2,520
Thanked 3,089 Times in 1,654 Posts
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Nice results. Congrats!
Lantanafrs2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2021, 01:42 AM   #8
jflogerzi
Senior Member
 
jflogerzi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Drives: 2013 Series 10 6MT FR-S
Location: Moreno Valley, CA
Posts: 5,565
Thanks: 2,013
Thanked 2,040 Times in 1,473 Posts
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Love flex fuel! Nice results

Sent from my Pixel 5a using Tapatalk
__________________
2013 Series 10 FRS #553
RCE T2's, SPC LCAs -4/2.6 camber
JDL 4-2-1 EL, FP and OP, Tuned by Zach@CSG on e85
RR Wilwood Front/Rear Sport BBK, Motul 600 Fluid
ARC-8 17x9 SX2 GTs 245s/Koing 17x8 v730's 225's
jflogerzi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2021, 06:54 AM   #9
villainous_frx
Off to the track!
 
villainous_frx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Drives: '14 Lava 86, '13 WRB BRZ
Location: Canada
Posts: 715
Thanks: 1,661
Thanked 1,191 Times in 478 Posts
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Nice results, congrats!
__________________
villainous_frx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2021, 05:31 AM   #10
pt1878
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Drives: 2018 BRZ tS
Location: Sydney, AU
Posts: 11
Thanks: 1
Thanked 9 Times in 1 Post
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purist View Post
Yeah keep us posted on that. Nothing like first hand data.
So I've driven around a bit on E85, E50 and back on 98.

There is definitely a drop down in torque across the high range from E85 to E50. There is a drop down again from E50 to 98 noticeable now through the mid range. Obviously these are subjective feelings just based on the butt dyno.

For day to day driving, I doubt I would even be able to tell the difference between E50 and 98 but I would notice it if I were to push above 3.5K. But as a blanket statement - you get used to what you drive. I don't miss E85 as much as I thought I would while driving on 98. I do miss it in certain situations when trying to accelerate hard.
pt1878 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2021, 05:04 AM   #11
alex87f
Meow
 
alex87f's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Drives: GT86 (now sold)
Location: France
Posts: 543
Thanks: 325
Thanked 453 Times in 240 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Whilst I appreciate the data, I really have trouble believing a 30% gain over stock with E85, headers and a tune. Especially considering your "stock" values include already-installed bolt-ons.

If you account for a 15% drivetrain loss, it'd mean you're pulling 243 crank Nm on a 2.0 N/A, i.e. 121.5Nm/L.
Not even a 992 GT3 or a 458 pull that kind of specific torque, and their values are reached at 6000+ RPM, not 4700RPM like your car. Granted, they don't run on E85, but they're 6-figure cars with record-breaking engines.

I appreciate you collecting the data in a clearer manner than most performance shops, I just think the gains seem a little too good to be true.
alex87f is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2021, 05:24 AM   #12
tomm.brz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Drives: brz 2017 hksv2
Location: italy
Posts: 2,215
Thanks: 504
Thanked 1,080 Times in 783 Posts
Mentioned: 65 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex87f View Post
Whilst I appreciate the data, I really have trouble believing a 30% gain over stock with E85, headers and a tune. Especially considering your "stock" values include already-installed bolt-ons.

If you account for a 15% drivetrain loss, it'd mean you're pulling 243 crank Nm on a 2.0 N/A, i.e. 121.5Nm/L.
Not even a 992 GT3 or a 458 pull that kind of specific torque, and their values are reached at 6000+ RPM, not 4700RPM like your car. Granted, they don't run on E85, but they're 6-figure cars with record-breaking engines.

I appreciate you collecting the data in a clearer manner than most performance shops, I just think the gains seem a little too good to be true.

Have you ever used E85?
in particular, have you ever passed from the 95 Ron (98 ron in Australia is not particularly better than our 95ron in europe), to E85 in the same car?

Octanes make magic things in the FA20


Ok that i'm boosted, but in my car the difference between 95ron and racing fuel at 103 ron is almost 80ps
And E85 has like 107ron, so imagine.
tomm.brz is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to tomm.brz For This Useful Post:
DAEMANO (12-17-2021)
Old 12-17-2021, 09:43 AM   #13
alex87f
Meow
 
alex87f's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Drives: GT86 (now sold)
Location: France
Posts: 543
Thanks: 325
Thanked 453 Times in 240 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I haven't but my mechanic (who specializes in 86's & rotary maintenance & prep) told me he never saw more than around 15% over stock with UEL + tune + flexfuel.

189hp @hubs would be about 225-230hp at the crank, which is within what I'd expect for the type of mods OP has.
It's both the torque on E85 and the 145hp @hubs stock that bother me.
alex87f is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Tags
dyno, e85, ethanol, tune

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My Nameless header dyno results (results to follow) Simply_the_best Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 39 06-28-2016 05:09 PM
Stock Dyno and Perrin Stage 1 Results brillo Software Tuning 4 01-24-2014 09:26 AM
Used Oil Analysis Results Captain Snooze Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 2 11-21-2013 01:59 PM
Visconti vs FA20Club vs Stock Tune Dyno Results mechaghost Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 153 07-08-2013 12:35 PM
Went to the DYNO Today, Stock* results are in! Z3D Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 30 03-06-2013 10:49 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.