06-15-2021, 07:56 AM | #29 | |
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The 2nd gen BRZ will have similar performance to…?
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Would it be cheaper to build? Material cost isn’t what drives cost, it’s time on the assembly line first and foremost. Bolting in the rear seat belts and seats probably didn’t take any longer than installing all the behind the seats trim panels and cubbies you have in a 2-seater. The Miata is a lot smaller than the twins, but it definitely isn’t cheaper. Also the Supra isn’t more expensive because it says BMW under the hood, it’s cheaper because of it. The extra cost vs the twins comes from the fact that that turbos, better brakes, better suspension, fancier diff, etc. all add cost. The Supra also isn’t heavy, in fact it’s lighter than any BMW by about 3-400 lbs. if you added a turbo I-6 with a strong enough drivetrain, brakes, and suspension to a twin from the factory, with wide wheels and tires it would weigh about the same as the Supra I’d wager. Everything that transfers power or stops it, or reacts it into the chassis, now needs ~70% more surface area at minimum to meet the same margins. (It’s an approximation 385/228=1.69) Probably more for chassis sections that react drivetrain load, since they’re likely in bending and getting more section modulus from sheet metal is not trivial. Last edited by Transport3r; 06-15-2021 at 09:18 AM. |
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06-15-2021, 11:48 AM | #30 |
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It'll be a little slower than my e85 FR-S or an AP2 S2000. For context, in 5-90 mph pulls, my E85 FR-S is:
1) Even with a stock AP2 S2000 2) 1 car length behind an AP2 S2000 with HFC, VTEC lowered to 5500 RPM, and LWFW. My car is probably making around 190 whp (OFT e85 tune, stock header/exhaust) and should weigh around 2700 lbs. Power-to weight wise: 1) Stock AP2 = 2850 lbs / 240 hp = 11.9 lbs/hp 2) My FR-S = 2700 lbs / 224 hp = 12.1 lbs/hp The gen 2 BRZ manual should be 2815 lbs / 228 hp = 12.3 lbs/hp So a touch slower.
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2022 BRZ Build 2013 FR-S Build Last edited by DarkSunrise; 06-15-2021 at 02:26 PM. |
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06-15-2021, 12:03 PM | #31 |
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I mean, the whole idea is it wouldn't be exactly the same car, and if it had the same name (as Z and ZX 2-seater and 2+2 versions did) or a different name, makes no difference to me. I have driven enough different cars, smaller and larger, lighter and heavier, shorter- and longer-wheelbase, on the road and at the track, to have a good idea of what I like. Sacrifice of +2 seats and some utility (space) for shorter-wheelbase, better weight distribution, and slightly lighter weight would be "better" for me.
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06-15-2021, 01:53 PM | #32 |
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I'm going to reach a little but this is what I have to compare the Gen2 BRZ to:
2007 BMW E92 328i 230 hp @ 6500 rpm 200 lb-ft @ 2750 rpm 0-60 in 6.3 secs Weight: 3340 2022 BRZ 228 hp @ 7000 rpm 184 lb-ft @ 3700 rpm 0-60 in 6.3 secs Weight: 2815 lbs I was happy with the performance of the BMW so I expect that I'll like the performance of the Gen2. Even more so than I did with my test drive of the Gen1. |
06-15-2021, 01:56 PM | #33 | |
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06-15-2021, 02:08 PM | #34 | |
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I'll be pleasantly surprised if the new car is faster than my e85 FR-S (or basically a stock AP2 S2000), but you're right, it should have a favorable torque curve compared to both. No waiting to get through the torque dip or hit VTEC.
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06-15-2021, 03:03 PM | #35 | ||
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The 2nd gen BRZ will have similar performance to…?
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The current car already does 6.2 seconds to 60: Quote:
I expect the GR86BRZ to drop into the 5's, matching the S2000 would require a significant 0.8s improvement to 60. Toyota does claim 1s improvement so it's not that unlikely car and driver can thrash one hard enough to get there. To match the AP2 S2000 in the quarter it needs 0.7s and only 2mph. Beating the trap speed seems easy at this point. Looks like the twins suffer more at the launch than anything. Hopefully the PS4s are going to help here, maybe not enough to match the 245 widths the S2000 has to work with. S2000: 5.4 to 60 and 14.1 @ 97mph in the quarter: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15133774/honda-s2000-short-take-road-test/ Last edited by Yoshoobaroo; 06-15-2021 at 05:19 PM. Reason: typo |
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06-15-2021, 06:53 PM | #36 | |
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06-15-2021, 07:23 PM | #37 | ||||||
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Anyway, at 3200 lb. for the 4-cyl and 3400 lb. for the 6, it's too heavy for *me*. Quote:
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In the end, the Z4/Supra are luxury "sports cars" built from luxury sedan parts and pieces. it's the modern BMW approach. I wish they could remember how to build small/lightweight fun cars like the 2002, and E30 M3... |
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06-16-2021, 06:12 PM | #38 | |
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Toyota measure from idle. So, I hope that from launch gr86 will take only 5.7 seconds from 0-100. On PS4 |
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06-17-2021, 09:12 AM | #39 |
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TBH I don't remember the car/driver, could be his car wasn't maxed out on points for the class he ran. For sure to be in T80 (only 2 classes up from me) it must have been a 996 or 997 GT-3 running 200tw or slower tires. I was on Hoosier A7s in T60, maxed out on points for the class. No doubt a good driver on the best tires allowable for that car in that class would have been a lot quicker...
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06-17-2021, 10:41 AM | #40 | |
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IIRC Toyota approached Porsche first, and I would absolutely love to have a Porsche NA 4 in that car. |
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06-17-2021, 12:02 PM | #41 | |
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Two seat cars just cost more because they are usually more expensive, costly to repair and have worse accident rates than 4 seaters. The manufacturers are not "fooling" the insurance companies with fake back seats. https://www.autotrader.com/car-news/...company-266842
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06-17-2021, 12:33 PM | #42 |
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The back seats are perfectly useable.
My kids fit absolutely no problem, and adults can go for short trips. I’m glad they’re there, they *do* make the car a lot more practical than a Supra/Z/Miata |
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