2014 86CUP Challenge to NorCal with NCRC

[RehabJeff86]

Weekends for sure works better for most of us


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[MyRx]

Originally Posted by AyJay

In previous Chrono run groups, it was hard to get all of the people in that wanted to participate because they weren't at the skill level of Open group (most chrono participants) and certain NCRC approved people from Point-by.

86Cup participants will run in the run-group they registered for. Your run-group is determined by your experience on the track and/or frequency of attendance.

Is the concept that 86cup won't run in the chrono group and the participants just run in their natural run group (solo, point-by) and hope they can get enough clean laps and/or point-bys to record a decent time?

Correct. The Chrono group will be just that, Chrono group. The 86Cup participants will run their registered run-groups. Is there any 86 owners that run in the Chrono group that is willing to participate in the 86Cup?

I remember watching a video w/ PMok @ Laguna Seca awhile back where he posted captions in the vid about how frustrated he was about not getting a point-by from a red S2k in the solo group. Obviously, that sort of thing will kill a time attack.

@PMok's too fast for his own good sometimes

Here's some options to possibly help remedy that: 1) dedicated 86Cup session, participation driven. 2) staggered entrance onto the track. 3) utilize the steward when to re-enter the track. If you have any other ideas how to provide clean lap, please share.

[MyRx]

Originally Posted by finch1750

In terms of schedule i think saturdays are best. And while I may be in the minority due to it being closer to me, could one or two of the 12 be Buttonwillow? They have some on the ncrc schedule and since socal runs it to it would be nice to see how we stack up.

In short, if majority wants to see BW on NorCal's side, then why not.

However, if you choose to run BW during SoCal's 86Cup, I will certaintly ask if that credit is transferrable to NorCal. I'm in the same predicament because my first one was in SoCal. My second 86Cup looks like BW w/ SoCal.

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by MyRx

In short, if majority wants to see BW on NorCal's side, then why not.

However, if you choose to run BW during SoCal's 86Cup, I will certaintly ask if that credit is transferrable to NorCal. I'm in the same predicament because my first one was in SoCal. My second 86Cup looks like BW w/ SoCal.

I would think it would be seperate days from socal as they dont use ncrc so the schedules are different. But if we do utilize BW I would think running with SoCal could count towards norcal standings, maybe as long as you dont run BW more than it appears on the norcal schedule?

In the future I could see more free swapping of standings, but if you allow total freedom I think it could fracture turnout too much and not let the norcal part of it get off the ground.

[sw20kosh]

I did 3-4 86cup events last year. They were fun!

I would definitely do a Norcal one.

[orthojoe]

Originally Posted by garfull

Someone hit 2:04 in a pretty much stock frs. This was running the bypass at turn 5.

I don't buy that at all. Even if Aryton Senna was behind the wheel.

Let's take @smmmurf's time as the stock benchmark - 2:15
smmmurf thinks 2:14 is possible, so we'll start with 2:14
Let's be generous and take off 3 seconds for the bypass - 2:11
Let's be extra generous and take off 4 seconds for extra sticky tires - 2:07

There's another 3 seconds unaccounted for. There's no way a chip/flash will buy another 3 seconds.

Either there was a screwup with the transponder, or the car is much more modified than what was disclosed.

Someone post a video of the run and list the actual mods, and I'll be happy to eat crow. Until then, I call BS.

Stuff like this would make an 86 cup very interesting, though.

[MyRx]

So. I throw this out there, should consistency be called upon then? If a driver has a fluke of a time, ie 2:04 but the raw data shows his/her average are 2:10s, should the 2:04 be the time or the fastest of the 2:10s? I'd like to have the raw data be transparent to all while a committee (track junkie being one of them) can justify any outliers. Even if necessary, we can set limits ie 8 sec off your next best time. I'm not saying the transponders will always be inconsistent but rather things do happen.

Glad you mentioned "mod disclosure". I would think we can be mature enough to disclose the mods in our cars. At the moment, individual owners will check off their mods against SoCal's point sheet, calculate your own points, classify your car, and return that paper to me or NCRC.

[orthojoe]

Good point about outliers. I don't know what the consistency of transponders are, but I've seen guys using HLT with an external gps showing totally inaccurate lap times. It looks like a great lap, but then you go back and look at the data and what happened was HLT teleported the driver through half of an entire sector, wiping away a magical 5 seconds.

[garfull]

eveyone was shocked when the time was announced over the pa even the announer. dont know what happened afterwards if it was a fluke or not.

[PMok]

Originally Posted by MyRx

So. I throw this out there, should consistency be called upon then? If a driver has a fluke of a time, ie 2:04 but the raw data shows his/her average are 2:10s, should the 2:04 be the time or the fastest of the 2:10s? I'd like to have the raw data be transparent to all while a committee (track junkie being one of them) can justify any outliers. Even if necessary, we can set limits ie 8 sec off your next best time. I'm not saying the transponders will always be inconsistent but rather things do happen.

Glad you mentioned "mod disclosure". I would think we can be mature enough to disclose the mods in our cars. At the moment, individual owners will check off their mods against SoCal's point sheet, calculate your own points, classify your car, and return that paper to me or NCRC.

What we don't want to see happen though, is lose a legitimately good time just because it is too much of a variance from the other times. Let's say we run in our solo or open group and there's a lot of traffic, or flags, whatever. Whole session, you get slowed down here and there and all you can do is 2:20s. Then miraculously it opens up and you get one great flying lap and it's a 2:14. In that kind of scenario I think it's best to let the best time stand as a default, and if for some reason the other competitors in the same class feel that the time is not legit, they can raise a challenge or protest and then the organizers would take a closer look at the situation. Hopefully, if this remains a friendly series where people are doing it for fun and everyone's getting along, we won't have too many issues with something like this. If I somehow managed to log in a time that was way beyond what I really expected to achieve (due to transponder error or whatnot), I certainly would fess up to it.


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[Doborder]

So my only mod is rivals 225 on 17x8 so do I still qualify for stock class? I think 0.5 pts
Camber bolts, brake pads are free ( no pts)

[Doborder]

Originally Posted by orthojoe

I don't buy that at all. Even if Aryton Senna was behind the wheel.

Let's take @smmmurf's time as the stock benchmark - 2:15
smmmurf thinks 2:14 is possible, so we'll start with 2:14
Let's be generous and take off 3 seconds for the bypass - 2:11
Let's be extra generous and take off 4 seconds for extra sticky tires - 2:07

There's another 3 seconds unaccounted for. There's no way a chip/flash will buy another 3 seconds.

Either there was a screwup with the transponder, or the car is much more modified than what was disclosed.

Someone post a video of the run and list the actual mods, and I'll be happy to eat crow. Until then, I call BS.

Stuff like this would make an 86 cup very interesting, though.

I have to second @orthojoe on this one



@RehabJeff86 is probably one of the fastest guy I know and I was there when he did 2:08.8 at T-hill bypass.
His car is by definitely "modified", granted the rivals are almost heat cycled out...
2:04... 4 sec faster from a stock car on stock tires....
I would say almost impossible

[orthojoe]

Originally Posted by Doborder

2:04... 4 sec faster from a stock car on stock tires....
I would say almost impossible

Not almost impossible. It is IMPOSSIBLE. You can take that to the bank.

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by Doborder

So my only mod is rivals 225 on 17x8 so do I still qualify for stock class? I think 0.5 pts
Camber bolts, brake pads are free ( no pts)

Yup. That's what I love about this point system, if it doesn't say its worth points means its free. Unlike scca where unless its listed its illegal. Besides, I think these classes are much better suited to what a true dual purpose car is (screw stx and no oil coolers,lol)