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GR86 General Topics (2nd Gen 2022+ Toyota 86) General topics for the GR86 second-gen 86


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Old 05-16-2022, 07:29 AM   #99
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Well this has turned into a useless thread.
Well since the original question is almost rhetorical and the first few pages covered all the facts we know then the rest is just gravy anyway.
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Old 05-16-2022, 08:57 AM   #100
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COBB only did FI cars anyway, they never did the twins....
Not true though. They do NA Porsches like the 987.2 Cayman S for example.
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Old 05-17-2022, 01:15 AM   #101
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Not true though. They do NA Porsches like the 987.2 Cayman S for example.
That was a unique case and also with assistance with some other tuner yielding like 3-6% bump.

If you look at their current available lineup it's all FI.
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Old 05-17-2022, 01:53 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by spcmafia View Post
I was about to say, Shiv might make a comeback, but I wouldn't hold my breath. The customer support of OFP is a bit lacking. Even if Open Flash Performance cracks the ECU, I would bring it to Steve99 right after it, if I had a second gen. Steve is the man.
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Ya great Shiv turns up for a couple of years, rakes in some cash and then disappears again. That is true long term value right there.
Steve of course soldiers on!
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Originally Posted by CincyJohn View Post
I understand why some people may have issues with Shiv/OpenFlash. Having said that, the system worked perfect for me. I would gladly go back to OpenFlash for Gen2 (although I wouldn't want to be one of the first). Of course, I readily admit to being able to take advantage of being a very late adopter. I never went to Steve or WayneRoms but would have.

One of the reasons I haven't sold my OFT+ yet (as well as my JDL UEL catted headers) is in hopes that it might be usable on the Gen2. I would gladly pay an upgrade fee to OFT for tunes if necessary. And yes, I would almost immediately go to Steve or Wayne thereafter (assuming they were supporting the platform).

Having said that, I would also go the Ecutek (or other) route for a little more money if that ends up being the first (or only) option. The one thing I don't want to be is in the first wave of cars (if possible) - but I also am not sure how long I will be able to wait if/when the tunes become available especially if there is an e85 tune for catless headers and it ends up being as good as I think it might be. Since I go through about 22-23k miles a year, right around year 2 is when the 45k portions of the warranty will be done so that might work out OK.
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Well, TruBoost on the GR86 forum says with apparent inside knowledge that Shiv is working on it. Just went to their site and confirmed no "news." I will believe it when I see it - but am hopeful.

Yes, assuming it is a similar situation to Gen1, it will not be conducive to boosted Gen2 cars (of course, there isn't even a boosted Gen2 option yet, so there is that...).

As for adjustment, not sure I see much difference between EcuTek and OFT. Obviously, EcuTek requires you to work with a tuner who then, presumably, uses a dyno to help dial in what are the stock tunes. OFT had guys like Steve and Wayno (and Shiv actually) who did the same thing just working off ECU datalogs. If you want to squeeze every last HP out of it, I could see EcuTek being better. But I do believe OFT provided great value.
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You've used shivs tunes?
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Nope and won't. I defended him for two years as he slowly but surely stopped replying to people and half the threads on here were "where the hell did Shiv go?".
Customer support should not dry up just because you have moved onto the next new thing.
How he started
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96556

How he ended up
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141451

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117046

There are loads more but my point is made.
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Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox View Post
OFT definitely provides value. I ran one on my NC1, traded it in, then used it for both 91 and E85 tunes on my BRZ.

But it ends up being a lot more DIY because of the lack of support from the guy who sells it to you. For me, I have other stuff I want to do. So spending a bunch of time datalogging, learning the parameters, messing with the tunes, etc. No thanks.

I'd rather get an EcuTek tune, do some datalogging on a dyno, send it back for a revision. And then be done with it.
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Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2 View Post
I've never had a problem with shivs tunes. Still using his e85 flash
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Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox View Post
There is nothing wrong with them, they are just far from optimized.

And there are many accounts of people trying to datalog and get revisions to improve their tune and getting anything from waiting a very long time for a response, to never getting a response.
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Your point is bullshit because you have no personal experience with open flash. You're just looking for attention
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You asked me a question and I answered it with evidence to support my statement. How is that "looking for attention". If you don't want an answer don't ask a question.

It is nice that you had no problems and as the documentation I presented show there were indeed very few issues early in the 86 game. In 2019 when I was looking to see if tuning was a direction I would go instead of buying new I researched tunes and OFT was one of them. All of the info I could find at that time indicated that they had pretty much dropped all support for the platform. As an added bonus, through the research I did I discovered that this was pretty much the norm for any platform they developed tunes for. They started out hot and heavy then just gradually disappeared. The cry or "Where is Shiv" can be found on almost any platform forum you want to look at.
I have never said that there were issues wit their products but simply that their customer service sucks as a product ages. The fact that you as an individual had no issues is greatly outweighed by the masses that did.

Sorry for long paragraph and going back to this topic but felt like touching on this.


I've been on the forum as long as @Tcoat and sold my 15 a bit ago. You can see what I ran in my signature. I ran an OFT E85 stage 2, and the stage 1 93+ tune with tweaks recommended by Wayno and Steve99 mixed in that I figured out in romraider.

@Tcoat is definitely right in his statements and their is no need to defend Shiv. Also @OkieSnuffBox explained it best the same way I felt messing with tunes, it was fun at the beginning but an unnecessary chore and stupid to play around with later. Nearly every version of the tunes if you had a CAI or UEL required maf scaling, LTFT or other edits. Things you would only notice if you datalogged it and had Steve or Wayno take a look at your logs.

You get some advantages like, not locking your ecu, easy custom modding with romraider etc. But all that becomes moot point when you try to reach out to Shiv. You really shouldn't have to rely on guys in Australia who are doing a service for basically free to assist you in dialing in an off-the-shelf tune.

He hasn't even been on this forum since 2018, his facebook page for support is filled with people having to help each other. People on this forum and that facebook page also began going way too aggressive with the pop & crack tunes. I remember way back when assisting with screenshots of how to do it in romraider in the big thread here on ft86club. I removed it after about a week of fun with it. However, when started the overrun settings led to a lighter burble and not an intentional pop and bang, now its obscene and unnecessary.

Also good luck finding a reputable tuner that will edit the roms for you without locking their work, something ecutek allows them to do. That's why people would go to Steve and Wayno who would do amazing work and give example posts. They would go over logs in datazap better than Shiv's late to game e-tuning datalogging.

Best bet is to get something with a reputable tuner behind it if you plan to go anything past stage1, most if not all will take into account 1-3 datalog sessions for free and make sure everything is buttoned up one time. If I splurge on a GR86 that will definitely be what I do.
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Old 05-17-2022, 10:45 AM   #103
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Sorry for long paragraph and going back to this topic but felt like touching on this.


I've been on the forum as long as @Tcoat and sold my 15 a bit ago. You can see what I ran in my signature. I ran an OFT E85 stage 2, and the stage 1 93+ tune with tweaks recommended by Wayno and Steve99 mixed in that I figured out in romraider.

@Tcoat is definitely right in his statements and their is no need to defend Shiv. Also @OkieSnuffBox explained it best the same way I felt messing with tunes, it was fun at the beginning but an unnecessary chore and stupid to play around with later. Nearly every version of the tunes if you had a CAI or UEL required maf scaling, LTFT or other edits. Things you would only notice if you datalogged it and had Steve or Wayno take a look at your logs.

You get some advantages like, not locking your ecu, easy custom modding with romraider etc. But all that becomes moot point when you try to reach out to Shiv. You really shouldn't have to rely on guys in Australia who are doing a service for basically free to assist you in dialing in an off-the-shelf tune.

He hasn't even been on this forum since 2018, his facebook page for support is filled with people having to help each other. People on this forum and that facebook page also began going way too aggressive with the pop & crack tunes. I remember way back when assisting with screenshots of how to do it in romraider in the big thread here on ft86club. I removed it after about a week of fun with it. However, when started the overrun settings led to a lighter burble and not an intentional pop and bang, now its obscene and unnecessary.

Also good luck finding a reputable tuner that will edit the roms for you without locking their work, something ecutek allows them to do. That's why people would go to Steve and Wayno who would do amazing work and give example posts. They would go over logs in datazap better than Shiv's late to game e-tuning datalogging.

Best bet is to get something with a reputable tuner behind it if you plan to go anything past stage1, most if not all will take into account 1-3 datalog sessions for free and make sure everything is buttoned up one time. If I splurge on a GR86 that will definitely be what I do.
Counterpoint.

I had an OFT and was very happy with what I got for the money and would do it again if a similar option were offered for Gen2.

I was very happy with the price ($500 all-in for which I could probably get back $250 if I tried to sell back). I was happy with the convenience and the easy to use self-contained interface. I used Stage1 and Stage2 93 tunes and the Stage 2+ e85 - they all worked fine "off-the-shelf." I had plans on having Steve or Wayno optimize my tune (I was almost exclusively on the e85 Stage2+ tune) if I had stuck with it. For what you paid, and what you got, I think it was a GREAT deal.

What I don't understand is people that seem to think Shiv should have provided full-service customized tunes/solutions while paying a mere $500 including tunes AND hardware. If you wanted that, then by all means, you should have gone Ecutek and paid the $1,500 plus to get initially started, and, presumably, more every time you wanted to go into your tuner to change/adjust something.

BTW, I realize Shiv also offered some custom options (at relatively reasonable prices) and that he may have fallen down somewhat on customer service there. Still, with all of the institutional knowledge on this board, as well as guys like Steve and Wayno (who did lots of help for free and even made a little WELL-DESERVED money in the process), it seemed most people could eventually get where they wanted to go.

I am sort of sick of people complaining about Shiv/OFT without acknowledging the considerable value having that option provided. I really hope there is something similar available eventually for Gen2.
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Old 05-17-2022, 01:43 PM   #104
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If I buy a hammer from home depot do I need customer support to teach me how to use it?
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Old 05-22-2022, 06:44 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by FRSBRZGT86FAN View Post
That was a unique case and also with assistance with some other tuner yielding like 3-6% bump.

If you look at their current available lineup it's all FI.
They do NA 911's too haha. So not exactly accurate.
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Old 05-23-2022, 11:00 AM   #106
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Word around the campfire is that ECUtek hasn't even started working on cracking the 2nd gen ECU. Just like they never bothered with the ND2 Miata.

I'm hoping that changes.
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Old 05-23-2022, 11:17 AM   #107
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If I buy a hammer from home depot do I need customer support to teach me how to use it?
You?
Probably
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Old 05-23-2022, 12:17 PM   #108
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The new gen is pretty stout as it is. Provided it doesn't morph into a yugo when the Temps climb like the first Gen did it might not need tuning. I've read that the new vette ecu was recently cracked but they couldn't find any gains naturally aspirated.
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Old 05-23-2022, 12:51 PM   #109
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The new gen is pretty stout as it is. Provided it doesn't morph into a yugo when the Temps climb like the first Gen did it might not need tuning. I've read that the new vette ecu was recently cracked but they couldn't find any gains naturally aspirated.

Itís already 90F here, power feels fine.
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Old 05-23-2022, 12:52 PM   #110
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Word around the campfire is that ECUtek hasn't even started working on cracking the 2nd gen ECU. Just like they never bothered with the ND2 Miata.

I'm hoping that changes.
I'm not sure if they imported an ECU to start with, but they don't even have the BRZ/86 in the UK yet do they?
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Old 05-23-2022, 12:57 PM   #111
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I'm not sure if they imported an ECU to start with, but they don't even have the BRZ/86 in the UK yet do they?
I just got an email back from them, paraphrasing they said they have done some preliminary work and will continue to do more shortly, but don't have an estimated time for releasing an ECUTek tuning platform for the 2nd gens.
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Old 05-24-2022, 03:18 AM   #112
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Literally any stock performance car will benefit from a catless exhaust and a good tune (ideally dyno tune).
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