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Old 11-02-2014, 07:10 AM   #211
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How is your assumption any more educated than mine?
You stated;


'this car does not have the ridiculous race tires which, if you "spent any significant time on a race track" you would know is the single biggest factor for that cars (the Griffon) lap time. not the aero.'

So basically you, and others here, are dismissing the aerodynamic improvements, weight reduction, body stiffening and chassis improvements as mere gimmicks that do not significantly improve the speed of the car around the track. Better just to stick on some slicks and a turbo, eh?

How then can you explain the progressively quicker lap times of Tsukuba - from 63 secs down to 58 secs - if it was wearing the same ADVAN Racing Slicks for every test?
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Old 11-02-2014, 01:24 PM   #212
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You stated;


'this car does not have the ridiculous race tires which, if you "spent any significant time on a race track" you would know is the single biggest factor for that cars (the Griffon) lap time. not the aero.'

So basically you, and others here, are dismissing the aerodynamic improvements, weight reduction, body stiffening and chassis improvements as mere gimmicks that do not significantly improve the speed of the car around the track. Better just to stick on some slicks and a turbo, eh?

How then can you explain the progressively quicker lap times of Tsukuba - from 63 secs down to 58 secs - if it was wearing the same ADVAN Racing Slicks for every test?
again, you are making huge assumptions. where am i dismissing aero improvments? i am saying that it isnt the single most important thing? yes. does that mean im saying its a gimmick? no. youre being ridiculous. how much lighter is this car than the standard? how much stiffer is the chassis? i would love to hear the answers to these questions so i can stop having to make assumptions about them. you keep referring to the actual race car which isnt even the car in question.
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Old 11-03-2014, 04:25 AM   #213
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again, you are making huge assumptions. where am i dismissing aero improvments? i am saying that it isnt the single most important thing? yes. does that mean im saying its a gimmick? no. youre being ridiculous. how much lighter is this car than the standard? how much stiffer is the chassis? i would love to hear the answers to these questions so i can stop having to make assumptions about them. you keep referring to the actual race car which isnt even the car in question.
The information you require is all in this thread, you just have to read it.

I do not keep mentioning the 'race car' (it isn't, it's a development vehicle anyway), it is you who have an obsession with it. My point was that the Griffon shaved five seconds off it's lap times at Tsubuka by improving the chassis, weight and suspension whilst using the same tyres for every test. The 14R60 uses those same type of improvements as well as better than stock wheels and tyres so should be much quicker than a standard FRS. With so many areas of improvement I would take your bet over which was quicker around a track - the 14R60 or a stock FRS on slicks - just how much are you prepared to lose?
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Old 11-03-2014, 09:15 PM   #214
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The information you require is all in this thread, you just have to read it.

I do not keep mentioning the 'race car' (it isn't, it's a development vehicle anyway), it is you who have an obsession with it. My point was that the Griffon shaved five seconds off it's lap times at Tsubuka by improving the chassis, weight and suspension whilst using the same tyres for every test. The 14R60 uses those same type of improvements as well as better than stock wheels and tyres so should be much quicker than a standard FRS. With so many areas of improvement I would take your bet over which was quicker around a track - the 14R60 or a stock FRS on slicks - just how much are you prepared to lose?
tell me more about how a celica action package is faster than a regular gts on slicks or how a s2000cr is faster than than a regular s2000 on slicks or how an evo mr is faster than a regular evo on slicks. you say you dont keep mentioning the race car but every single example you talk about refers to is so i dont know what to say now.
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Old 11-03-2014, 10:11 PM   #215
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So why can't you put race tires on the 14R60 again? Was there a point to this inane argument?
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Old 11-04-2014, 11:37 AM   #216
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Old 11-04-2014, 02:31 PM   #217
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tell me more about how a celica action package is faster than a regular gts on slicks or how a s2000cr is faster than than a regular s2000 on slicks or how an evo mr is faster than a regular evo on slicks. you say you dont keep mentioning the race car but every single example you talk about refers to is so i dont know what to say now.
Don't say anything anymore because the humour you are trying to impart in this post is not working.
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Old 11-09-2014, 08:15 PM   #218
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I guess they are running out of names now, eh?
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Old 11-10-2014, 08:52 AM   #219
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Bout time to sell this thing and move on to a less bitching community.
I swear the FRS/BRZ crowd is the most smug car community ever.


But that's why I like it.
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Old 11-10-2014, 09:13 AM   #220
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I swear the FRS/BRZ crowd is the most smug car community ever.


But that's why I like it.
To be more accurate the FRS/BRZ crowd that join this forum is the most smug.
Never sat and did the math but a best guess would be that there are less than 5% of the owners of these cars on here. Since a forum generally attracts people with strong opinions it is not surprizing they come off as smug.
Sad part being, other people come here see all the shit and run off saying the car is crap, the owners are jerks and other such misinformation.


Reaper, there is another option than "sell the thing and move on to a less bitching community" as you could keep the car and just stay off the forum.
Read comments like that all the time but when I checked my documents could not find anything that says "participation in the FT86 Club forum is mandatory when purchasing this car"!
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Old 11-10-2014, 11:45 AM   #221
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I swear the FRS/BRZ crowd is the most smug car community ever.


But that's why I like it.
You must have never been on zilvia...
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Old 11-10-2014, 11:50 AM   #222
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well lets take a look at it. is an order of magnitude more expensive than this production car. this car does not have the ridiculous race tires which, if you "spent any significant time on a race track" you would know is the single biggest factor for that cars lap time. not the aero. i would be willing to bet a standard twin with decent tires is going to run circles around this race inspired griffon street car. giving credit to this car because of what an actual race car has accomplished is like saying my moms camry is fast because they use them in nascar. just because two cars are not powerful but one is fast doesnt make the other one fast. your perspective is naive at best.

The only cars that have track ready tires on them from the factory are $80k cars.

Tires are definitely significant. But Aero and No Aero are significant as well. And how many track junkies are taking their cars to the track with the factory tires on? Lot easier to change tires than adding aero. You are not making a case to say it's not functional just because it doesn't have R-compounds on it from the factory.

My perspective is that the aero if functional, not that the car is blazing fast. Pay attention to the message here.

I track my car on a monthly basis for the past 4-5yrs (not my FR-S, but my other Scion). I know what it's like to have only 150hp and know what it's like to have 300+.
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Old 11-10-2014, 12:13 PM   #223
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tell me more about how a celica action package is faster than a regular gts on slicks or how a s2000cr is faster than than a regular s2000 on slicks or how an evo mr is faster than a regular evo on slicks. you say you dont keep mentioning the race car but every single example you talk about refers to is so i dont know what to say now.
Smh...
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Old 11-10-2014, 12:38 PM   #224
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The only cars that have track ready tires on them from the factory are $80k cars.

Tires are definitely significant. But Aero and No Aero are significant as well. And how many track junkies are taking their cars to the track with the factory tires on? Lot easier to change tires than adding aero. You are not making a case to say it's not functional just because it doesn't have R-compounds on it from the factory.

My perspective is that the aero if functional, not that the car is blazing fast. Pay attention to the message here.

I track my car on a monthly basis for the past 4-5yrs (not my FR-S, but my other Scion). I know what it's like to have only 150hp and know what it's like to have 300+.
I've never been making the case that is not a significant improvement. I'm making the case that the race car running low times is not relevant because it is on those race tires and it has completely different aero. Shake your head all you want but please let me know when this production car runs a sub minute lap.
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