follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Speed By Design
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing

Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing Relating to suspension, chassis, and brakes. Sponsored by 949 Racing.


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-01-2021, 03:57 PM   #15
Goingnowherefast
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Drives: AP2 S2000, 91 Miata 1.8L Rotrex 5MT
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 465
Thanks: 275
Thanked 299 Times in 187 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelGT86Racer View Post
AFAIK Ohlins only make a two-piece shock design for this platform - at least that's all I've been able to find from the shops that sell customized versions of them.
The SUS MP21S1 is a one piece front design. The older Ohlins for this platform used to be both 2 piece.

Pics:

__________________
2022 Hyundai Elantra N 6MT SCCA TT S3//Will be back in an 86 eventually
Goingnowherefast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2021, 04:13 PM   #16
Yzu
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Drives: RS1.0
Location: CO
Posts: 95
Thanks: 54
Thanked 89 Times in 40 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
My MCS 2-Way with 9k(F) 11k(R) ride miles better than my Tein Street Flex I replaced.
Yzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2021, 04:17 PM   #17
strat61caster
-
 
strat61caster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Drives: '13 FRS - STX
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 10,360
Thanks: 13,724
Thanked 9,470 Times in 4,993 Posts
Mentioned: 94 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast View Post
The SUS MP21S1 is a one piece front design. The older Ohlins for this platform used to be both 2 piece.

Pics:

Only one pic showing the two piece design.

Xida/949 is two piece as well, even on the Miatas the lower mount is threaded. It's not the devil and everything has some form of compromise, even $10k Penske's aren't magic.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guff View Post
ineedyourdiddly
strat61caster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2021, 04:25 PM   #18
Goingnowherefast
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Drives: AP2 S2000, 91 Miata 1.8L Rotrex 5MT
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 465
Thanks: 275
Thanked 299 Times in 187 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yzu View Post
My MCS 2-Way with 9k(F) 11k(R) ride miles better than my Tein Street Flex I replaced.
This is a good thing to point out too. Motorsport grade coilovers tend to actually ride very well. Another anecdotal data point, my 800 lbs/in spring Xidas rode miles better than my 400 lbs/in Bilsteins in my Miata.

Quote:
Originally Posted by strat61caster View Post
Only one pic showing the two piece design.

Xida/949 is two piece as well, even on the Miatas the lower mount is threaded. It's not the devil and everything has some form of compromise, even $10k Penske's aren't magic.
The difference of 1 vs 2 piece is that in a one 1 piece design the length of the shock is the entire body, where as on a 2 piece design the shock body does not extend the full length. In that example on the right you can see the Ohlins front shock is the entire length, where as on the left it is not. That's 1 piece vs. 2 piece. To your point though, exactly right. Everything is a compromise and you don't always benefit from increased shock travel at a certain point.
__________________
2022 Hyundai Elantra N 6MT SCCA TT S3//Will be back in an 86 eventually
Goingnowherefast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2021, 04:31 PM   #19
strat61caster
-
 
strat61caster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Drives: '13 FRS - STX
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 10,360
Thanks: 13,724
Thanked 9,470 Times in 4,993 Posts
Mentioned: 94 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast View Post
The difference of 1 vs 2 piece is that in a one 1 piece design the length of the shock is the entire body, where as on a 2 piece design the shock body does not extend the full length. In that example on the right you can see the Ohlins front shock is the entire length, where as on the left it is not. That's 1 piece vs. 2 piece.
The suspension mounting point is threaded and adjustable on both dampers pictured, no different from a BC Megan or Tein which also have the damper body go past the strut mount, they just don't waste money cnc machining a strut mount and instead weld steel together for the necessary features. The picture you show is no different from the 'old' design either.

By your definition Tein, BC, Megan, etc. are all '1-piece' fronts.



Edit: adding tein;

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guff View Post
ineedyourdiddly
strat61caster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2021, 04:47 PM   #20
Goingnowherefast
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Drives: AP2 S2000, 91 Miata 1.8L Rotrex 5MT
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 465
Thanks: 275
Thanked 299 Times in 187 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by strat61caster View Post
The suspension mounting point is threaded and adjustable on both dampers pictured, no different from a BC Megan or Tein which also have the damper body go past the strut mount, they just don't waste money cnc machining a strut mount and instead weld steel together for the necessary features. The picture you show is no different from the 'old' design either.

By your definition Tein, BC, Megan, etc. are all '1-piece' fronts.



Edit: adding tein;

That's fair. The difference is that those brands you mentioned use a china shock cartridge that wasn't designed for the application and is likely way shorter (therefore having decreased travel). For some more anecdotal data, there was nearly 15% more total shock travel on my RCE T2's than my FEAL 441's for the reason stated when I tested them side by side.
__________________
2022 Hyundai Elantra N 6MT SCCA TT S3//Will be back in an 86 eventually
Goingnowherefast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2021, 07:44 PM   #21
BrahmaBull1990
Howdy
 
BrahmaBull1990's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Drives: 2020 BRZ PP
Location: Snohomish, WA
Posts: 589
Thanks: 1,271
Thanked 446 Times in 248 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I have been on my RCE SS-1s for about 3 months and they are great. The ride is similar to OEM but the handling is spot on; zero body roll. I’m in the middle with dampening and haven’t even thought about changing it.

For $1,500, they’re tough to beat, IMO.
__________________
There's a point at 7,000 RPM... where everything fades. The machine becomes weightless. Just disappears. And all that's left is a body moving through space and time. 7,000 RPM. That's where you meet it. You feel it coming. It creeps up on you, close in your ear. Asks you a question. The only question that matters. Who are you?
BrahmaBull1990 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to BrahmaBull1990 For This Useful Post:
Racecomp Engineering (06-01-2021)
Old 06-01-2021, 07:50 PM   #22
AngelGT86Racer
Member
 
AngelGT86Racer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Drives: 2013 FR-S, 2007 Acura TL 5AT
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 55
Thanks: 30
Thanked 43 Times in 27 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast View Post
That's fair. The difference is that those brands you mentioned use a china shock cartridge that wasn't designed for the application and is likely way shorter (therefore having decreased travel). For some more anecdotal data, there was nearly 15% more total shock travel on my RCE T2's than my FEAL 441's for the reason stated when I tested them side by side.

The silver ones are Megan track coilovers. I had those at one point and I think they had the shortest front shaft I've ever seen on any car suspension - so that "one-piece" design intended on preserving usable length and travel was pretty much wasted on those coilovers.
__________________
2013 FR-S Raven, AutoX/Track/Daily Driver
Build: Angel's Dual Duty FR-S Build
YouTube: Angel Christov
AngelGT86Racer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2021, 09:54 PM   #23
Lakitu
Senior Member
 
Lakitu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Drives: 2017 Halo 86
Location: USA
Posts: 381
Thanks: 104
Thanked 131 Times in 85 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by norcalpb View Post
The price completely threw me off too. It's just a not a super popular coilover as it's never really advertised which must be the reason they are discounted so deeply. If you look for these coilovers on different sites, they are still showing the MSRP of roughly $900.
Yeah, looks like the ST are back from $527.40 to $879.00. Whatever that was, it ended today it seems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by norcalpb View Post
These coils also require you to reuse your OEM top hats which do add comfort over the metal camber plates I'm sure you're previous coils came with.
Damn it. I sold those. I'll take a look at the XT and XTA models and weight those versus shelling out the extra $1000 for KW or Ohlins. I mean, at this point, if an extra $1000 is the price for peace of mind and my car becoming less sketchy and less annoying to drive, then it's what I'll gonna have to do to do it right and never have to worry about it again.


Quote:
Originally Posted by norcalpb View Post
A lot of companies buy the Bor Chun "shells", give them a pretty color scheme, slap their logo on it and sell it for $700 more than BC to support their company. HOWEVER, some of these companies do quality test all the Bor Chun shells they receive so that you don't get any defective units.
Son of a beach... What a bunch of crooks. I wish I would have known this invaluable information beforehand. Wish I would've went the extra $400 and went with the KW or Ohlins instead of RS*R. I am very angry. But I have no one to blame but myself for not doing enough research.


Quote:
Originally Posted by norcalpb View Post
The main difference between KW and ST is that KW bodies are made with Stainless steel, whereas ST have zinc plated steel bodies.
Thanks for this comparison. Honestly, I might just go for the KW V3 or Ohlins. Really hard to beat the "you get what you pay for" statement when you've already failed twice due to going cheap. Now its a matter of deciding which one of those two, I guess. Part of me is just dreading getting the XT or XTA and it not working out. Third time's usually the charm, though, but I might have to go all out to make it happen.
__________________
Build Thread / Daily Driver
OFT Stage 2+, GrimmSpeed CAI, JDL Ultra Quiet FP, Perrin 2.5" Resonated CBE, Enkei 18x8.5 +45, 245/35 Continental ExtremeContact
Lakitu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2021, 10:08 PM   #24
Lakitu
Senior Member
 
Lakitu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Drives: 2017 Halo 86
Location: USA
Posts: 381
Thanks: 104
Thanked 131 Times in 85 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrahmaBull1990 View Post
I have been on my RCE SS-1s for about 3 months and they are great. The ride is similar to OEM but the handling is spot on; zero body roll. I’m in the middle with dampening and haven’t even thought about changing it.

For $1,500, they’re tough to beat, IMO.
Hmmm, this one is appealing too. I'm seeing KW pop up once more, along with "affordable", both of which appeal to me as it seems like I'd be getting quality for a good deal, but then that begs the question of what is the compromise that RCE SS-1 has that the KW V3 doesn't suffer from?
__________________
Build Thread / Daily Driver
OFT Stage 2+, GrimmSpeed CAI, JDL Ultra Quiet FP, Perrin 2.5" Resonated CBE, Enkei 18x8.5 +45, 245/35 Continental ExtremeContact
Lakitu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2021, 12:01 AM   #25
RayRay88
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Drives: 2017 86 860 Special Edition
Location: Toronto
Posts: 559
Thanks: 198
Thanked 461 Times in 241 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I think this thread has completely derailed itself with this pedantic 1piece vs 2piece conversation. The type of coilover means less than the quality and internal damping characteristics. With Ohlins/KW/Xidas etc you're paying for what's inside (as well as the build quality) over any of the BC based systems.
RayRay88 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to RayRay88 For This Useful Post:
therealstoly (06-02-2021)
Old 06-02-2021, 03:41 AM   #26
ACT86
Senior Member
 
ACT86's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Drives: English, French, Swedish & Japanese
Location: Canberra
Posts: 176
Thanks: 262
Thanked 149 Times in 61 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Also keen to know the coilovers that provide the best comfort / performance / price. Won’t be tracking the car so was thinking of giving the Bilstein B14s a go.
ACT86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2021, 02:02 PM   #27
norcalpb
Senior Member
 
norcalpb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Drives: 2013 BRZ, 2023 Model 3
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 2,289
Thanks: 1,208
Thanked 853 Times in 565 Posts
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakitu View Post
Hmmm, this one is appealing too. I'm seeing KW pop up once more, along with "affordable", both of which appeal to me as it seems like I'd be getting quality for a good deal, but then that begs the question of what is the compromise that RCE SS-1 has that the KW V3 doesn't suffer from?
KW V3 has stainless bodies while RCE SS-1 has Zinc bodies like the STs. But considering the engineers over at RCE are experts with our car's suspensions, and the SS-1 is like $600 cheaper, I'd opt for the ss-1.

Only major difference would be a possibly higher spring rate on the SS-1, meaning they could possibly be more track oriented than the KW V3.
norcalpb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2021, 02:50 PM   #28
strat61caster
-
 
strat61caster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Drives: '13 FRS - STX
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 10,360
Thanks: 13,724
Thanked 9,470 Times in 4,993 Posts
Mentioned: 94 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Ss1 is single adjustable and v3 is double adjustable.

If it's not seeing track/autox then the softer spring rates and oe top hats are a better fit.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guff View Post
ineedyourdiddly
strat61caster is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help needed BC BR Coilovers too bouncy 8k! CoryeWest Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing 29 10-25-2018 01:18 PM
FR-S owner's bumpy ride crushes through the cracks of the streets SquadRon Off-Topic Lounge [WARNING: NO POLITICS] 43 07-10-2016 06:14 PM
FR-S/BRZ Vs. 2015 WRX ride quality rennlistuser3 FR-S / BRZ vs.... 65 01-11-2016 11:33 PM
Reducing bumpy ride with sportline springs Lemar58 Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing 5 10-11-2013 09:24 AM
How harsh is the ride on 18" vs 17" wheels? mickey177 Wheels | Tires | Spacers | Hub -- Sponsored by The Tire Rack 8 07-18-2012 03:08 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.