2013 Subaru BRZ -- Another Power Steering Failure & Troubleshooting Help

[BrettRS]

No luck this weekend troubleshooting, couldn't get it to throw a code, dealer appointment scheduled for 8:15 tomorrow to figure it out.

[radroach]

I think you wore out the alternator trying to run on a dead battery.

[BrettRS]

Originally Posted by radroach

I think you wore out the alternator trying to run on a dead battery.

Fingers crossed, that would save me about $1,000 vs. a new ECU. Paying $100/hr for the diagnostics to start.



Dropped the car at the dealer today and they called me right after I dropped it and said there was a valve spring recall to be performed if I wanted it, but it would take them a few extra days (while also troubleshooting the power steering issue).


I told them to go ahead with the recall (mine being a 2013, I don't think it could hurt, I'm sure there's new valve gaskets involved and other new parts that can break down over 100k miles) and to let me know about the EPS.


Hopefully Subaru pays well for the valve spring recall and the tech is feeling generous and I don't end up with a $1,000+ bill, but only time will tell what caused this EPS failure.



I'll be sure to update the post for the next person Googling this in 5 years when I get the car back.

[BrettRS]

If anyone sees this as can give me some advice in the next few hours, I need to make a decision:


Dealer just called me back, he said the EPS motor and maybe an associated sensor (he couldn't give me the name of it off-hand) are bad and need to be replaced.



He said that the EPS motor is only orderable as integrated with an entire new steering column installation, there's only one in stock in the country, and it'll take a week to get in.



Quoted me $1500 + tax for the steering column (including EPS motor) replacement. Says he cannot get just EPS motor by itself, it is not orderable as a stand-alone part on his end.



Does this seem a little excessive to anyone else? I told him to give me some time to loop back with him...I've seen the photos in this thread: https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133606


and it is quite obvious to me from these photos and the instructions that the entire EPS motor can be removed without replacing the entire steering column...am I missing something?



Should I tell them I'll just pay the troubleshooting, bring the car home, order the EPS motor off Ebay, and try and install it from the instructions from the link I posted above and see if that fixes it and saves me $1,350+?



Or does someone know if the EPS motor is truly mated with the steering column and the entire mechanism needs to be changed out?


Please help if anyone has any more knowledge than me, trying to decide if I want to drop $2,000+ because the dealer says it's their only way to fix it, or if I can just order the EPS motor and replace that by itself.



Any idea what sensor he may be talking about that might need replaced with it? If there was actually a bad sensor, it surely would have thrown a code in all of my testing, right?

[BrettRS]

Originally Posted by pope

are you sure the electric steering motor isn’t falling?

@pope you were correct, have you replaced this before? Can you check my post above this one and see if you can help me with my questions?

[Spuds]

If they are doing the recall I don't expect you to be able to take the car home today, I thought that was a 2-day kind of deal.

Can't help with the steering, but about the recall...
It certainly involves new liquid gaskets. Subaru hasn't killed as many engines doing it as Toyota, so it should be fine.

[radroach]

@BrettRS if you send the car in for recall, talk to the service advisor about replacing the clutch throw out bearing and spark plugs while the engine is out, will save you a bit of money not having to do that after. My Subaru dealership gave me this service at parts cost.

[BrettRS]

Originally Posted by Spuds

If they are doing the recall I don't expect you to be able to take the car home today, I thought that was a 2-day kind of deal.

Can't help with the steering, but about the recall...
It certainly involves new liquid gaskets. Subaru hasn't killed as many engines doing it as Toyota, so it should be fine.

Yeah, I'm not expecting to take the car home yet, he told me the recall would be a few days. But in the mean time, I need to make a decision to have them order the new steering column or if I should get the EPS motor ordered and in the mail to me. Thanks for the reply, more hopeful that the recall will go well with the insight that Subaru's survive it better.

Originally Posted by radroach

@BrettRS if you send the car in for recall, talk to the service advisor about replacing the clutch throw out bearing and spark plugs while the engine is out, will save you a bit of money not having to do that after. My Subaru dealership gave me this service at parts cost.

It's an automatic, so unless I am mistaken, clutch throw out bearing shouldn't be present. Are the plugs really that hard to get to that it's better to ask them to do them with the motor out rather than me replacing them after I get it back? Honest question, haven't had too much issue getting to spark plugs on most my motors for replacement.

[BrettRS]

I cancelled the recall work for now and told them I would just pay for the troubleshooting on the power steering issue and would be trying to replace the EPS motor on my own first. Going to pick it back up this afternoon.



If that is unsuccessful, I'll leave the car with them for a few weeks for the recall work and the steering column replacement.



Does anyone know if I'll need a new column ECU (like this listing shows: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-SUBARU...0AAOSwgn5fQB7p ) or if just replacing the EPS motor alone will not cause any further issues?



Shot in the dark, since I guess power steering failure isn't a common failure here.

[BrettRS]

Here's the service report, if there's any additional info conveyed that could be meaningful to my last question above about what parts to order.

[pope]

Originally Posted by BrettRS

@pope you were correct, have you replaced this before? Can you check my post above this one and see if you can help me with my questions?

The steering column and motor are only listed on subaru.parts.com as the complete unit for $888.xx, so with installation the quote seems about right, but assuming you have some rather basic tools and are comfortable working with the air bag, replacing the column assembly shouldn’t be too hard.

I have and have not replaced the column. I have not replaced the bottom half with the motor, but I did swap out the top half to put a keyed steering lock into my push start car. I got a complete column (two actually) from my local salvage yard for ~$100ea. If my basement wasn’t in shambles right now because of some work I’m having done, I’d go pull out one of my spare columns to confirm whether you could just buy a used column and swap just the motor.

The steering angle sensor is built into the clockspring assembly. I’m not sure if there’s any additional sensor built into the motor. I’d start by replacing the steering column/motor and worry about computers later.

Notes:
1. Key start cars and push start cars have different columns. The inner shaft in the upper half that the steering lock interfaces with is different. The bottom half is the same.
2. The electronic steering lock box in the push start cars is part of the immobilizer system, so if you have a keyless car you will need to go through the hassle of removing the security bolts from both the original column and the used column (if using a used column) to retain your original lock box. Otherwise the car will require expensive reprogramming that may or may not also require replacing the ecm, fobs, etc. (I have the impression from the forum that immobilizer components must all be replaced if any one is replaced, but I’m not 100% certain in this point. However, I do know that the used lock box from one of my spare columns would not work in place of my original steering lock.)
3. Swapping out the column will alter the steering angle calibration. Techstream will be required to recalibrate the steering angle. Power steering should still function even when the calibration is wrong, but abs, traction control, and stability control will not.

P.S.
The valve spring recall has mixed results across the forum with a fair number of cars having the engine self destruct after the recall. The general recommendation seems to be to ignore the recall unless your state requires the recall before registering/renewing the car.

[Ultramaroon]

The motor position resolver is part of that steering column assembly - what I called the drive unit replying to your post in RT.


https://demos.starbase7.net/t3Portal...0275102ZX.html

[Tcoat]

From Random

As I said this is way beyond me as the cars I used to work on all the time only sensors were the driver.
From the looks of the manual there are at least 6 different sensors involved with the steering. Each of those sensors have between 2 and 6 possible failure modes. Add all the wiring, the control module and actual moving parts into the mix and an intermittent failure is almost impossible to identify through guess work.
To go back to what has been said I do not think you can diagnose this without capturing the failure codes with Techstream. There is just so much going on.

For example
"DESCRIPTION
The power steering ECU assembly receives vehicle speed signals from the skid control ECU via CAN communication. The power steering ECU assembly provides appropriate assisting force in accordance with the vehicle speed, based on the signals."
Your problem could be anyplace between a wheel speed sensor and the steering column. Even a loose or slightly corroded wire could be the issue. The only way to narrow it down would be to get the codes.

There was a big recall for the steering in Australia and all that was happening was that the position of some wires could cause small amounts of debris to create interference in the signal and the steering would cut out. No this does not apply to your car but that is how little it takes for the system to screw up. https://www.toyota.com.au/news/toyot...ted%20vehicles.

What I am confident in saying is that in all probability the motor is not the issue.

Now that you have everybody's attention we should probably take this discussion back to your failure tech thread so that if an answer is found it is not lost to posterity in the wastelands that are random thoughts.

[Ultramaroon]

...and DO NOT let them tear apart your perfectly good engine.