SCCA Solo D Street discussion

[Twinz]

I actually asked this question and was told it's "as-raced" weight.

Unlike treadwear ratings on tires, we don't have to take a manufacturer's word for weight. Not all manufacturer's have easily--available published wheel weights and some manufacturer's listed weights could be off a bit. There could be safety issues if the amount of ballast needed is too high. (Like making a 15lb wheel weigh 17lbs) But if balancing weights or an extra coat of paint and/or a spacer (that doesn't push your offset out of spec) get the as-raced weight to 17lbs, then I think it will work.

17lbs means you won't get an advantage by outspending your competition on exotic wheels. (At least I think that's the primary motivation for a minimum wheel weight)

*edit* using some old TPMS sensors instead of regular valve stems is also a safe way to add some ballast.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Twinz

17lbs means you won't get an advantage by outspending your competition on exotic wheels. (At least I think that's the primary motivation for a minimum wheel weight)

imho if cost control was the only motivator they would lower the weights to include popular lighter options that do not break the bank, RPF1, 949 and Kosei typically offer reasonably priced wheels in sizes/weights ~16 lbs, a 15.5 lb limit would have been reasonable and not biased. Hell the OZ wheels TireRack sells are expensive but can look great so a lot of people will pay a bit extra and get the weight savings to boot, but can't run them in this class.

It's a $4k package, switching from TireRack wheels to RPF1's only increases the price by $240 for the full set for 1.5 lbs per corner weight savings. And there's plenty used floating around out there and cheaper vendors than TireRack on some options. If TireRack was able to offer more significant savings I could see the argument, but realistically they're saving people ~5% while taking a few very attractive options off the table.

When I hear 'exotic wheels' I think things that are like $2k+ per set and are several pounds lighter than the known reliable options, custom built wheels, old vintage wheels that may not be reliable but could offer 2 lbs of weight savings per corner like these:

http://starcityracing.com/Forums/sho...8-w-Advan-032R

or these:
http://counterspacegarage.com/produc...ss-silver.html

or these:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...02&postcount=4

All of these and more would have been disallowed via a 15.5 lb minimum weight. No it seems to me that this was a concession to improve TireRack's profit margin on the kit. Likely worth it as they probably wouldn't make much money without a few things like this (such as including the SPC toe arms which totally aren't necessary but do add to TR's bottom line). At the end of the day it's not a totally unreasonable rule, compromises have to be made, it just seems to be very much a regulation not for the racer, but for the vendor.

In any case it will be interesting to see how this is enforced. Minimum weight with spec tire? Approved list of wheels? Disallowed list? Time will tell.

Edit: goddamnit taking another thread offtopic this is DS

[tony_r]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

No it seems to me that this was a concession to improve TireRack's profit margin on the kit.

Well, yeah of course. Otherwise TR likely wouldn't have backed selling the package. What you might be able to do is get some really heavy centering rings to up the weight of the "as-raced" wheel. I bet if you talk to Emilio and tell him the story with this SSC thing, he'd be totally willing to try get his wheel to spec. Hell, I might just do that.

Anyway, resume DS discussion.

[strat61caster]

There's nothing wrong with it, just don't pretend it's for some noble reason. It was a business deal.

[Biggins]

So, how many people are staying/going to DS in 2017?

[edj]

i am unlikely to be running in DS next year. not sure where yet though.
if somebody wants to buy my MCS singles adjustable shocks that will help
with my decision!

[ApexEight]

DS guys,

How are your stock diff and subframe bushings fairing after hard driving?

I like that the more heavily prepped classes allow the polyurethane Whiteline diff and subframe inserts. I feel like these parts would increase the longevity of the stock bushings, which would be a major pain to replace if they tear. I'm thinking DS is what I want compete in though...


Thoughts?

[Locust]

FYI Tire Rack lists their OZ Ultraleggera in black at exactly 17lbs. This is, IMO, the wheel they were targeting.

https://www.tirerack.com/wheels/Whee...5&autoModClar=

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by ApexEight

DS guys,

How are your stock diff and subframe bushings fairing after hard driving?

I like that the more heavily prepped classes allow the polyurethane Whiteline diff and subframe inserts. I feel like these parts would increase the longevity of the stock bushings, which would be a major pain to replace if they tear. I'm thinking DS is what I want compete in though...


Thoughts?

Mine were in very good shape at 58k miles when I installed the inserts. With STX suspension, everything is stiff enough to where subframe movement becomes a significant portion of total suspension movement, which is the only reason I installed them. Otherwise, they didn't seem like an item of concern. I wouldn't worry.

[Shark_Bait88]

I'm still debating the switch, waiting for all the info to be finalized.
@edj if you wanna sell them for a REALLY good deal, I'd be happy to take them off your hands.

[Biggins]

I'm staying in CS, but my plan is to buy a set of MCS next year, it's just a terrible time of the year for me to lay down cash for anything car-related.

No issues with the bushings after 5+ years of autocross with a few ProSolos in there and no plans to replace with an aftermarket version... I'll replace with OEM if I ever see the need to replace. I have not heard bushings raised as an issue in the Street classes. I have had to replace/re-lube my sway bar bushings once every year or two.

[Shark_Bait88]

Yeah, the main thing swinging me toward staying in DS is the wedding I'm supposed to be saving for.

There are two factors that might tip me to SSC though:

1) A more DD friendly spec tire than RE-71Rs. This would mean I could downsize from 3 sets (DD, winter, and autox/track) to just two sets (DD/autox/track and winter). Which would probably result in me selling my tire trailer and downsizing my storage unit too. The savings there would offset the costs of SSC prep enough to make it worthwhile.

2) An oil cooler allowance. This would make the class a LOT more attractive for those of us who dodge cones and play on road courses. At this point it's not necessary enough for me to make the jump to STX. But if the decision for me was between DS w/o an oil cooler or SSC w/ oil cooler, the decision would be pretty easy.

[G_Ride]

Originally Posted by Biggins

I'm staying in CS, but my plan is to buy a set of MCS next year, it's just a terrible time of the year for me to lay down cash for anything car-related.

No issues with the bushings after 5+ years of autocross with a few ProSolos in there and no plans to replace with an aftermarket version... I'll replace with OEM if I ever see the need to replace. I have not heard bushings raised as an issue in the Street classes. I have had to replace/re-lube my sway bar bushings once every year or two.

I may know someone selling Street legal MCS two-way non-remotes in the near future....@Jawnathin

[Twinz]

Originally Posted by Locust

FYI Tire Rack lists their OZ Ultraleggera in black at exactly 17lbs. This is, IMO, the wheel they were targeting.

https://www.tirerack.com/wheels/Whee...5&autoModClar=

48mm offset will limit strut clearance/camber so that wheel will need spacers and extended studs. Mechanic types may not mind but I don't want to fool with that stuff if I don't have to. I would take a heavier wheel with a 40mm offset.