Harrop TVS86 Owners Thread

[Bodalenko]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

If you prime the pump by turning the car on then crank it over, it is much more likely to start. If you crank it over, but don't over do it then try to start it again then it boots right up. I haven't found it a problem, even in the winter. Then again, the blend has more gasoline in the winter, so that helps. After driving the car starts right up with one to two cranks more than straight gasoline.


In some countries like Brazil, E85 cars come with a second, small gasoline tank just for cold startups.

Yeah I do that. I don’t use my car a great deal, it’s a 2013 that’s just yesterday clicked over to 40k kms, so it sits for three days or longer in the garage between uses. My start up proc is I prime the pump for a about 5 secs, then floor the accelerator flat while I crank the engine to bring up the oil pressure. Then I let the accelerator of after about 10 - 15secs and let the car start, which it does without any issue at all. And that’s in 7 to 10 deg C as it is in Melbourne at the moment. As I said my car’s 100% e85. I may actually run a blend thru it and see what the difference in starting, running, and performance is. On straight e85 it phenomenal..

[Bodalenko]

Originally Posted by grumpysnapper

I've only just got my cold start fixed (on the new small pulley).... it was taking up to 40+ seconds of cranking to get her going. But to be fair it is now a low compression bottom end, and the Motronic had to be tuned from scratch. Its now not a bad start...but will never be like a 98ron start.
The tuner had a queue of maybe half a dozen different cars he was trying to fix with their cold starts (as it has just turned to winter)...its pretty hard,
'cause he only gets one crack at it per day (first thing in the morning).
In reality though, I won't be running on E85 most of the time as its just too hard to source, particularly on longer trips.
The gearbox is %100 fine, it did about 25k with the larger pulley, and only about a 1k with the new higher power set up. One of the benefits of not having huge mechanical grip with the tyres I'm running, means that the drivetrain doesn't (perhaps) have to deal with the potential loadings of stickier rubber...
Having said that, I do tend to treat the "infamous" 4th gear with a little more love.

Winter in Brissy is like summer n Melb 😀 So I can Understand your tuners issue. I was more than happy with the pulley BUT as one does you get used to the performance and start looking for a little more. It a $1k upgrade from Harrop due to needing a complete retune. Then add the extra stress on the internals of engine and transmission and it’s a big decision. I’m running 245/40/18 Michelin’s on one set of wheels and the same size Re008’s on another set, but even they break traction in second at ¾ throttle so yes I’m super careful going from 3rd to 4th, but as I said I do hav e a spare with 1400kms on it ready to go. I was considering sending the spare to Neats in Adelaide. They have a hardening/shot peening process that strengthens the gears considerably. Not a cheap fix but easier than changing the transmission in these to something stronger.

Interested in your driveshaft replacement. Still debating going that way and was considering the aluminium. I’ve heard NVH goes thru the roof with them so given I have STI mounts, drivetrain/subframe/diff inserts, and a noisy IRP shifter, if I do I’ll go the CF version.

[grumpysnapper]

Yeah, the prop shaft does make a very very noticeable change to NVH... and carbon ( in my experience) is pretty much as bad.
But I do have a rear seat delete, so without the seat squabs, it might be a little less noisy for you. And I have also kept standard bushings and mounts throughout, so it could possibly not be any quieter too.
It is definitely one of those mods that if you don’t actually need it, I wouldn’t do it.

[Bodalenko]

Originally Posted by grumpysnapper

Yeah, the prop shaft does make a very very noticeable change to NVH... and carbon ( in my experience) is pretty much as bad.
But I do have a rear seat delete, so without the seat squabs, it might be a little less noisy for you. And I have also kept standard bushings and mounts throughout, so it could possibly not be any quieter too.
It is definitely one of those mods that if you don’t actually need it, I wouldn’t do it.

Ok wow. I nearly pulled to trigger on a CF from Varis. At $2k it’s not a cheap upgrade. What I would recommend is a Fluidampr Crank pulley. Took a lot of NVH out of my car.

Just wondering how you’ve wired you FlexFuel kit. For whatever reason Harrop wired mine straight to the pos battery terminal so it’s powered all the time. I’ve checked with Zeitronix re current requirement and they say it’s minimal and nowhere near in need of high amps. I’m intending to change it to a relay triggered by the power outlet in the glovebox. Only issue I’m aware of triggering it via an ACC powered source is the power for ACC cuts out when cranking so may effect the FlexFuel module.

As for our gearboxs, Neats in Adelaide have a hardening/shotpeening process that strengthens the gears. $2500 for the 86..

[86TOYO2k17]

@Bodalenko
Zero added NVH with my DSS carbon fiber DS, both before and after engine mounts, trans insert, rear diff inserts, na, and fi.

I think i did fluidampr crank pulley at same time. As well as under driven/over sized water/alt pulleys.

[86TOYO2k17]

@Bodalenko
My zeitronix FF kit is only wired to the rear o2 plug in, and one extra wire to a ground.

[grumpysnapper]

Originally Posted by Bodalenko

Ok wow. I nearly pulled to trigger on a CF from Varis. At $2k it’s not a cheap upgrade. What I would recommend is a Fluidampr Crank pulley. Took a lot of NVH out of my car.

Just wondering how you’ve wired you FlexFuel kit. For whatever reason Harrop wired mine straight to the pos battery terminal so it’s powered all the time. I’ve checked with Zeitronix re current requirement and they say it’s minimal and nowhere near in need of high amps. I’m intending to change it to a relay triggered by the power outlet in the glovebox. Only issue I’m aware of triggering it via an ACC powered source is the power for ACC cuts out when cranking so may effect the FlexFuel module.

As for our gearboxs, Neats in Adelaide have a hardening/shotpeening process that strengthens the gears. $2500 for the 86..

Yeah, it’s interesting, a month or so after I had put the alloy one on, I asked my tuner guy if a carbon one might be better. He sort of laughed at me, but had one sitting there, so he was happy to let me trial it. I/he could barely tell the difference.
His experience seemed to be similar to mine in terms of NVH, with both his and his customers cars and his thoughts were that the standard shaft is split and mounted the way it is for a reason.
I’ve certainly been happy with the performance of the alloy shaft, and if all other things are equal the big extra cost of carbon is probably not worth it (at these power levels at least).
As always though, others experiences might be different.

I’ve gone down the weight reduction route, so I run a lightweight crank pulley, and the standard engine mounts seem to isolate ok. My NVH is pretty much all drive train, from clutch to diff.

I don’t know about my flex kit wiring....that was fitted when the bottom end was upgraded. But I think there are some circuits that do stay live during cranking.

The best bang for buck weight saving ( to compensate for the supercharger add) is a lithium battery... pretty much 9kg instantly, and they are much cheaper than they used to be too.

[Bodalenko]

That interesting re the no difference re the drive shaft. I was under the impression there was a night and day difference. That’s $2k saved if it’s good but too noisy. I’m past driving mechanically noisy cars. Unless it’s for a sequential gearbox.

So just wondering what the major difference was when you had the motor rebuilt with regard to the performance of the Harrop and drivability.

Without being specific here was the rebuild an expensive project? Anything you’d do differently now it’s done..

[grumpysnapper]

Originally Posted by Bodalenko

That interesting re the no difference re the drive shaft. I was under the impression there was a night and day difference. That’s $2k saved if it’s good but too noisy. I’m past driving mechanically noisy cars. Unless it’s for a sequential gearbox.

So just wondering what the major difference was when you had the motor rebuilt with regard to the performance of the Harrop and drivability.

Without being specific here was the rebuild an expensive project? Anything you’d do differently now it’s done..

Best you double check with others re. prop shaft too, but even if i'm %75 wrong, it's still a big compromise (in my opinion) unless like me you are chasing weight.

Small pulley made a huge difference, it does now go properly quickly....but its not cheap to get down to that small pulley.
I went down the low compression path with an IAG stage 2 bottom end (which in itself is extremely good value, and beautifully done). But then all the add ons get going... stronger studs, injectors, uprated valve springs, gaskets, heads all redone, fuel pump another ECU tune etc etc.
I ended up having some dramas with my ECU/tune/EcuTek and so took the chance to change over to a Motec... mega expensive, but amazing capabilities which allow a tuner to do things and interpret things they couldn't otherwise be able too. It also works in with the standard C-Bus/loom, so stuff like your aircon, cruise control etc operate as per normal, and has nice integrated loom connections too.
But you don't need it...and at aud $6300 just for the basic box...its an indulgence (you would %100 need it though if you went sequential for example).
You need to upgrade drive shafts, (and oil/water cooling too which I already had)
Overall it wasn't too ridiculous...probably ended up around the aud $14000 area including labour. (I'm lying, with the Motec and tune it was over $22000 and then $25000 at the same time for some weapons grade dampers...wife still has no idea...I'm dead if she ever does...)
Drivability is no problems, aside from the previous issues with cold start on E85, on 98 was all sweet.
I have the driver aids all switched off permanently (aside from ABS) and its no great dramas (I've got a rally background, and have always played with RWD cars).... although in the wet it can get ugly, even on the freeway in 5th....

[Kiske]

Have you by chance came across a larger (than OEM size) crank pulley? That is what harrop reccommended to me when I asked about machining down the s/c snout to drop below the 65mm option.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Kiske

Have you by chance came across a larger (than OEM size) crank pulley? That is what harrop reccommended to me when I asked about machining down the s/c snout to drop below the 65mm option.

I think you will need to have someone make one for you. I haven't seen any. If you did that then wouldn't you be overspinning the alternator, water pump and AC?

[Kiske]

Harrop estimated the alternator would be fine.

Oil and Water are things that will just have to be checked when running. I'm well over built in that area though from past turbo experiences. Knock on wood.

I've already have a quote for a custom pulley setup. The quote hits right at 11k with 6-8months of downtime in their shop. Custom rebalanced crank, dual crank pulley, a stand-alone idler/free floating tensioner, and a pair of custom supercharger pulleys to moving the Supercharger over to it's own 8-rib drive belt. Needless to say that route isn't going to happen.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I think you will need to have someone make one for you. I haven't seen any. If you did that then wouldn't you be overspinning the alternator, water pump and AC?

Fensport oversized/underdriven water/alt pulleys.

Not sure why AC would matter.

[Irace86.2.0]

I have brought this up before, but I was thinking of adding a coolant surge tank to the system like the Edelbrock kit, specifically, I want to buy the tank from their kit. Your thoughts?