Is The Crossover The New Sports Car? FT86 Vs. BMW X7 M50i Vs. Supra & 8

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by why?

Very true, but if you can afford to get someone to give you a lease on a six figure car you probably could afford to buy a Toyota Camry and an 86.

But you would have to want a Camry and an 86. People leasing BMW SUVs probably have zero interest in either.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by why?

Because 2 cars is twice as expensive or more. .

Only if you buy everything new. Right now, there are 5 cars in my household. We have:

'05 Mustang
'13 FRS
'04 Suburban
'03 Accord
'14 Ford Focus SE

All told, we paid under $80,000 for them starting in '05 with the purchase of the Mustang. The Mustang and the FRS were purchased new, the rest were used. With the exception of the Suburban which had an electrical problem a couple of months ago ($300 repair), none have been in the shop for non-maintenance work in the last two years.

So for the price of the CUV in this you can buy an entire fleet of cars to meet your needs based on my experience.

[ROFL it's Waffle]

I had to bring up the Edge ST commercial, which gives the illusion that "sporty" is the same thing as "sports car." It's a smart campaign for increasing general sales, but enthusiasts know the differences.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjGzw01L9Cw[/ame]

[ROFL it's Waffle]

Originally Posted by why?

Because 2 cars is twice as expensive or more. It was one thing when cars were a few grand each, but now they are just too expensive, and so is everything that goes along with them. Although if you can afford a six figure bmw you can afford 2 cars.

Generally speaking, I find it very amusing when you buy a very nice used car and the general public thinks you bought it brand new at MSRP no haggling with cash. I personally enjoy the hunt, looking for used gems with crazy low mileage. This makes the multi-car goal very much an achievable reality for even the most frugal of people.



<-----Ask me how I know.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by MaverickMonk

Because “people who live in cities” is actually a whoooooole lot of people. The majority of people in the US live in expensive metro areas along the coasts. Most families are dual income, meaning both parents share childcare duties. That means both family members need to share childcare duties, carry kid seats etc. very few people living in these areas can store 3 cars. So each needs a kid carrier. In bigger cities even 2 cars is a tough sell.

Hit the nail right on the head. It's ideal to have two cars that can carry the kids in case one parent needs to work late or one car needs repairs/maintenance, etc. My FR-S has a child-seat in it. Never intended for it to be used for that and probably only does about 10% of our kid-hauling, but the 10% it does is critical. The rear seats are the only reason I've been able to avoid trading it in for a hatch/CUV.

[bfrank1972]

Bah, I have an 8K 97 4Runner (reliable as can be) and a 25k (new) FR-S, maybe another 3K into it for fun/speed. That's 35K total - people who are looking at the 'do it all' SUVs are spending north of 60k. And I used to be one of those "people who live in cities", NYC, and there you're much better off having *no* cars at all. But at that point, having kids in a dense urban area, you're already making compromises both space-wise and cost-wise, IMHO you're really opting out of the whole 'fun car' experience anyways. Your nice car will get beaten up by roads and other drivers, and you'll be stuck in traffic 90% of the time vs ripping up back roads in your 'all in one' super car. Just my 2 cents

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

Bah, people who are looking at the 'do it all' SUVs are spending north of 60k.,,

Well, only if they insist on buying new. Like your Forerunner, our Suburban 4x4 Z71 was $50,000 new (OK, $49,997.28 per the sticker) but because we bought it 7 years old with 75,000 miles on it, we paid less than $11,000. All told, in the almost 8 years and 90,000 miles of ownership, we've spent less than $1,000 on non-maintenance repair.

Other than the fact that someone has to buy them new so there is eventually a used one to buy, I see absolutely no reason to purchase an SUV/CUV/etc new.

[bfrank1972]

Agree - and for the rest, this is just how I see the world. I realize many may not be comfortable buying a car with high miles/out of warranty, etc. to keep costs really low. I did the backseat thing for years with my FR-S, it's one of the great things about the car. The legroom is tight but the seats themselves are relatively deep- so my girls could sit criss-cross in the back perfectly fine. They still can fit in a pinch (my 14 year old in the front seat, my 12 year old in the back) but getting tough adding my wife in. We used to call my FR-S the "clown car" back when all 4 of us would go out in the FR-S. But now that I have a 2nd car, it's just much more freeing:


1) I can take the dog
2) My girls are much more comfortable in the 4Runner
3) My girls' friends are much more comfortable
4) No worries about poor weather, 4Runner has all terrain tires, yet another point of compromise with sporting SUVs - the usually have performance oriented tires necessitating seasonal swaps in northern environments
5) My FR-S stays clean in the garage
6) I felt MUCH safer installing my Vortech kit knowing I have backup, peace of mind
7) If I want to sell my FR-S for an even bigger mid-life-crisis car (like a Corvette), I can do it tomorrow without a second thought


Sometimes it's fun to just drive an old truck, sometimes it's fun to drive a tiny little raw sports car. That's what I personally enjoy, the extremes. Vehicles like performance SUVs are certainly impressive in their own right, but they really don't offer a diverse experience. I feel I might get bored with one, but I really don't know for sure.


Anyways YMMV, I'll shut up now

[rennlistuser3]

Originally Posted by MaverickMonk

Because “people who live in cities” is actually a whoooooole lot of people. The majority of people in the US live in expensive metro areas along the coasts. Most families are dual income, meaning both parents share childcare duties. That means both family members need to share childcare duties, carry kid seats etc. very few people living in these areas can store 3 cars. So each needs a kid carrier. In bigger cities even 2 cars is a tough sell.

It’s why small crossovers are more popular than compacts, and why on the sportscar front even a crappy hothatch is more popular than the best of sports cars. It’s why the best selling sportscar, the corvette, sells primarily among empty nesters

I'll add my vote to this as well

I live in a big crowded city and can even barely find a place for my 1 car. That's why the rear seats in the BRZ, as little a practically as they are, were a huge selling point.

Whenever I really need the extra space to haul people around, I go rent a car for 20$/day and thus far in 2 years that amounted to only once and it was almost as trouble free to do as to pick an apple from a fridge. Heck the rental agency told me next time I can just call them and they'll drive the car to my front door for me and give me a ride back when I drop it off.

I'll buy something that'll put a smile on my face

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by MaverickMonk

Because “people who live in cities” is actually a whoooooole lot of people. The majority of people in the US live in expensive metro areas along the coasts.

To some extent you are correct, but it may not be in the areas you think. According to the Census Bureau The population of the US is broken down into:

38.3% South
23.9% West
20.8% Midwest
17.1% Northeast

So, 58.3% of the US lives in the South and Midwest, which is not considered by most as "urban areas" although the populations are always focused in urban areas regardless of region.

As a country boy that tolerates living in the Suburbs of Atlanta I have no idea how anyone lives in a true urban area. I'm happy for you if you can, but it is definitely NOT for me.

[WolfpackS2k]

If one want to enjoy sports car like performance out of a 5000 lb SUV, then one needs to prepare for annual $2500 tire replacements.

Tire tech has come a very long way, but longevity and stickiness still aren't possible.

[Leonardo]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

If one want to enjoy sports car like performance out of a 5000 lb SUV, then one needs to prepare for annual $2500 tire replacements.

Like the 275/40/20 and 315/35/20 off a BMW X5M. They look good though.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

If one want to enjoy sports car like performance out of a 5000 lb SUV, then one needs to prepare for annual $2500 tire replacements.

Tire tech has come a very long way, but longevity and stickiness still aren't possible.

Really good point. Tires, pads, discs alone, especially if you actually track it. This goes for anything big/heavy.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

Really good point. Tires, pads, discs alone, especially if you actually track it. This goes for anything big/heavy.

That's probably the single biggest downside to the Camaro SS 1LE. Chevy has managed to turn a huge 3700+ lbs car into an absolute track weapon, but if you regularly track the car, you will be eating through expensive tires/pads/rotors/fluids on a regular basis.

It's something that journalists who borrow the car for a few days will gloss over because they're not really using the car as intended over an extended period of time.