Various Chassis Braces?

[AndMsc]

For anyone looking to buy trd parts: strut tower bar, member brace set, door stabilizer. I just got last 2 mounted (I had strut bar from the beginning): they are noticeable. Even when you change lanes fast they are noticeable. And you can feel better what each shock is doing. I got stock tires and PP. With wider tires and stiffer suspension (on track) they would make even a bigger difference.

[Thefalls]

It is believed that the Door Stabilizer helps with better steering feel. Some have said that they felt the difference.

There is a thread somewhere someone tried various braces from Cusco and gave a good description of the changes felt at it step.

Since you already have the member brace set and added the front strut brace, I don't see what else you could add in terms of bracing.

Maybe the Cusco front triangular brace and some STI steering rack longer bolts ?

In the rear I went with the STI subframe longer bolts coupled with STI subframe stoppers, four Uppers and only Lower fronts. And the rear feels planted. It doesn't feel like a brace is needed in the rear.

I am still debating about the diff inserts/cradle bushings. I am picky about NVH. Lol!.
Got rid of the Whiteline subframe inserts because of that and they caused too much understeer by adding too much rear grip.

Now its a good balance.

[gpvecchi]

I have just the upper STi stopper with STi bushings.
Using all that stopper wouldn't make the rear too harsh on potholes?

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Thefalls

Got rid of the Whiteline subframe inserts because of that and they caused too much understeer by adding too much rear grip.

That is not how those work.

Originally Posted by gpvecchi

I have just the upper STi stopper with STi bushings.
Using all that stopper wouldn't make the rear too harsh on potholes?

The NVH will be worse as there will be less to dampen the impact. I am solid mounted and you feel EVERYTHING.

[Thefalls]

Originally Posted by gpvecchi

I have just the upper STi stopper with STi bushings.
Using all that stopper wouldn't make the rear too harsh on potholes?

I don't see harshness on the rough roads but then I have the 2017 shocks with stock springs.

The rear end has the right amount of grip with enough oversteer properties. It is way better than the whiteline inserts and almost no NVH.

Super happy with his set up.

[Thefalls]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

That is not how those work.



The NVH will be worse as there will be less to dampen the impact. I am solid mounted and you feel EVERYTHING.

With before and after, same type of driving I noticed more grip in the rear.
The car was unmodified, just a stock car with whiteline subframe inserts only.

The rear end couldn't break traction 'easily' and on the limit of grip the front would give away first whereas before the inserts it was the opposite.
Which brought me to this conclusion.

[AndMsc]

Originally Posted by Thefalls

It is believed that the Door Stabilizer helps with better steering feel. Some have said that they felt the difference.

There is a thread somewhere someone tried various braces from Cusco and gave a good description of the changes felt at it step.

Since you already have the member brace set and added the front strut brace, I don't see what else you could add in terms of bracing.

Maybe the Cusco front triangular brace and some STI steering rack longer bolts ?

In the rear I went with the STI subframe longer bolts coupled with STI subframe stoppers, four Uppers and only Lower fronts. And the rear feels planted. It doesn't feel like a brace is needed in the rear.

I am still debating about the diff inserts/cradle bushings. I am picky about NVH. Lol!.
Got rid of the Whiteline subframe inserts because of that and they caused too much understeer by adding too much rear grip.

Now its a good balance.

Thanks a lot what cusco triangular braces are you reffering to? The ine the replaces the stock firewall-strut mount braces?

The only 2 other braces I would buy are these:
https://www.japanparts.com/parts/detail/?id=53517 - this is for rear shocks (kinda like a strut bar)
https://www.japanparts.com/parts/detail/?id=53482 - this is equivalent of longer bolts and stoppers for rear

And maybe, just maybe, something like this: https://ramotorsports.ca/collections...z-fender-brace

Instead of the front longer bolts and stopper, there is a part of trd member brace set (the rear long one, on each side)
Also instead of STI steering rack longer bolts, there is the steering rack brace from the member brace set. I think the bolt was also longer (I am not sure)

For BUSHINGS: I am planning on buying hardened rubber trd/sti ones: subframe, differential, engine mount, transmission

[grumpysnapper]

Originally Posted by AndMsc

Thanks a lot what cusco triangular braces are you reffering to? The ine the replaces the stock firewall-strut mount braces?

The only 2 other braces I would buy are these:
https://www.japanparts.com/parts/detail/?id=53517 - this is for rear shocks (kinda like a strut bar)
https://www.japanparts.com/parts/detail/?id=53482 - this is equivalent of longer bolts and stoppers for rear

And maybe, just maybe, something like this: https://ramotorsports.ca/collections...z-fender-brace

Instead of the front longer bolts and stopper, there is a part of trd member brace set (the rear long one, on each side)
Also instead of STI steering rack longer bolts, there is the steering rack brace from the member brace set. I think the bolt was also longer (I am not sure)

For BUSHINGS: I am planning on buying hardened rubber trd/sti ones: subframe, differential, engine mount, transmission

Honestly, in my opinion, first save your money and invest in great dampers and complimentary springs.

I run a supercharged BRZ, with great dampers on all sorts of rough (dirt) and real world rough/smooth bitumen surfaces (but not on race tracks, so I don't have the correct experience to comment ), on 16" rims, at standard road height.
All bushes and arms are standard but renewed regularly, with no bracing other than front and rear strut towers (which I'm not convinced actually do very much at all..).

None of the many professional drivers (ranging from Porsche factory accredited instructors to pro rally and race drivers) who sample/test the car ever, ever, ever, mention chassis/suspension mount flex as an issue. None have ever suggested for me to make any further modifications.

After 35000km very hard use the car is still "tight".

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Thefalls

With before and after, same type of driving I noticed more grip in the rear.
The car was unmodified, just a stock car with whiteline subframe inserts only.

The rear end couldn't break traction 'easily' and on the limit of grip the front would give away first whereas before the inserts it was the opposite.
Which brought me to this conclusion.

I think when buying parts it is important to understand how it effects the car. Otherwise it is too easy to fall under the placebo effect. You feel a change, and confirmation bias automatically causes you to register that change as “good.” Even if you don’t fully understand what the change is.

Generally parts like braces and bushings can effect a car in a couple major ways with some overlap. They can improve the performance of the car by providing more stable geometry. In this case think control arm bushing. A stiffer bushing, or a heim joint is going to deflect less and give you more stable geometry. Under load things like toe, caster, and camber will be more consistent and the car will handle more consistently as a result. Other parts improve the feel, which gives you more confidence to drive the car through improved feedback of the cars behavior. Through my experience subframe bushings or inserts, or in my case solid mount, mostly falls under this category. They do help keep the subframe from squirming around, but I have found this only seems to matter under high cornering loads. Like over 1 lateral g. Otherwise they just help improve the feel of the car.

[Thefalls]

You are right.

These effects are mostly felt when driving at the limit of grip where you can feel the changes.

In my case of use the car is meant to be used as daily and at extremes of grip during certain events ( autocross and Hill climb).

I understand that its easy to fall under the placebo effect but its been far too many years with modding.

The end result of the 'package" is more important than isolated mods.

[AndMsc]

Originally Posted by grumpysnapper

Honestly, in my opinion, first save your money and invest in great dampers and complimentary springs.

I run a supercharged BRZ, with great dampers on all sorts of rough (dirt) and real world rough/smooth bitumen surfaces (but not on race tracks, so I don't have the correct experience to comment ), on 16" rims, at standard road height.
All bushes and arms are standard but renewed regularly, with no bracing other than front and rear strut towers (which I'm not convinced actually do very much at all..).

None of the many professional drivers (ranging from Porsche factory accredited instructors to pro rally and race drivers) who sample/test the car ever, ever, ever, mention chassis/suspension mount flex as an issue. None have ever suggested for me to make any further modifications.

After 35000km very hard use the car is still "tight".

What rear strut tower brace do you use?

[grumpysnapper]

Originally Posted by AndMsc

What rear strut tower brace do you use?

I think the rear is AF racing ... from memory

[Bergycheese348]

Originally Posted by Roadcone

for anyone saying that most braces are dumb why would Toyota have gone thru all the effort to list everything they changed here? the one that surprised me was the fender brace.
http://www.trdparts.jp/conceptcar/14r-60/14r-60.pdf

Old thread...

What did the TRD site say originally? That specific info has been down for at least a year, and Im just wondering about the specifics of how much it does (from what they say) as i do have the Member Brace Set.

[AndMsc]

Basically, except the parts they sell, they welded some spots where this would go:
https://ramotorsports.ca/collections...z-fender-brace
They did not use a part like that, they partially welded it, made the triangle hole smaller.
They made more modifications, but except the one above, they used parts which can be bought.