I switched to the S2000, and here is what I think (video)

[mokinbird87]

Hi guys, still miss the brz in some ways, but in general pretty happy with the S2000. Here is what I have to say about the car:

[serialk11r]

Why did you go for an AP2 over an AP1?

The video is a nice review, but one thing you got slightly wrong is that Honda actually can make an F20C-like engine today. There is nothing difficult about making it pass emissions. It just wouldn't make them much money, because consumers like turbos (low end torque) too much and hate shifting gears.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Honda actually can make an F20C-like engine today. There is nothing difficult about making it pass emissions.

[NoHaveMSG]

You talk at the 1:34 and 4:18 mark about how you can't design a car with such a low hoodline anymore but post in this forum?

Oversquare engines are a design favored for high RPM's since it lowers piston speeds. The same size engine that is undersquare, would have a higher piston speed at the same RPM since it has to cover a longer stroke in the same amount of time.

Half a Ferrari V8 by adding ITB's?

[Rampage]

I liked the S2000 until I sat in one back in the day. I am 6'2". I bought a smaller car with more interior room.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Rampage

I liked the S2000 until I sat in one back in the day. I am 6'2". I bought a smaller car with more interior room.

For their size it is amazing how much room the twins have inside for taller people. I don’t fit in a Miata, I don’t fit in an S2000, I don’t fit in an RX8, I don’t fit in a Z3, but my BRZ has enough headroom for a helmet!

[TommyW]

Why are you wearing a mask while driving?

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by TommyW

Why are you wearing a mask while driving?

Lol

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

For their size it is amazing how much room the twins have inside for taller people. I don’t fit in a Miata, I don’t fit in an S2000, I don’t fit in an RX8, I don’t fit in a Z3, but my BRZ has enough headroom for a helmet!

Yeah, I love how I fit in the twins. In fact, I love just about everything about them other than the sound of the engine, If I did not have the 2ZZ Spyder then I would buy one in a heartbeat. I would still buy one for my wife but she is not a fan of how low they sit so we just keep her more upright sedan.

I just cannot buy a car that I cannot get comfortable in and that is why I passed on both the s2000 and all the MX-5 models. The ND MX-5 came the closest of the two-seaters but the headroom was tight and the cabin is kind of narrow.

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by TommyW

Why are you wearing a mask while driving?

Corona bro, it's in da air.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Sure, that's a great reason for me being wrong...it's incredibly ironic that you chose that particular GIF.

High rpm NA engines have no issues passing emissions at all. Emissions are controlled by cats, particulate filters, and combustion control. Cats just need to avoid poisoning from ZDDP in engine oil and high temperatures to survive the required amount of time. If oil doesn't leak past the seals (not a problem on a piston engine) and exhaust temperature is under control, there is no issue at all. 9000rpm is only 20% faster than the 7500rpm in a BRZ. There is no challenge with injecting and burning the fuel quickly enough for 9000rpm.

The 911 GT3 and Aston Martin Valkyrie can pass emissions just fine with less valvetrain adjustability than Honda engines. They have high duration fixed cam profiles that create plenty of unburned hydrocarbons at idle. They get burned in the cat leaving clean exhaust and the kittens are happy and alive.

Fuel economy is also not a problem with a specified shift schedule, especially if the engine is small and weak like the F20C. Ford's 7500rpm 5L V8s are being sold legally, and I don't think the owners care too much about the fuel economy.

People don't like shifting gears, they want to press the pedal and go fast like a Tesla does. A small NA engine that revs high doesn't do that in a high gear. If you strap a turbo on an engine that delivers a lot of boost at 2000rpm, there is no point revving the engine much past 7000rpm since the turbo can't deliver enough air. Once you've committed to the expense of adding a turbo, you might as well milk it for as much power as possible, and coincidentally consumers care about the horsepower number and fast acceleration. That's the real reason high revving engines are dying: not enough power, not enough low end torque.

[Yoshoobaroo]

The main reason NA engines are dying is the average CO2 rule in the European regulations, and that can’t be fixed with emissions equipment or better combustion control. That can only be reduced by making engines smaller and reducing revs. BMW’s head of M has cited this as the main reason for ditching NA motors, along with fuel economy. The only reason Porsche can get away with the GT3 and Ford can pass the Voodoo, is that for every GT3/GT350 they sell a million base 911s and mustangs. So the average CO2 emissions are barely affected by those models.

[mokinbird87]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Why did you go for an AP2 over an AP1?

The video is a nice review, but one thing you got slightly wrong is that Honda actually can make an F20C-like engine today. There is nothing difficult about making it pass emissions. It just wouldn't make them much money, because consumers like turbos (low end torque) too much and hate shifting gears.

I actually really like the way the AP2 looks over the AP1, but would rather have the engine from the AP1 for sure. In terms of consumers preferring low end torque vs revving out an engine, yes, I absolutely agree. Not many people seem to want to work for speed anymore.

[Sapphireho]

At least you didn't give the highway covid.

Love the s2000 engines. Don't like the cars. To each their own.