First impressions! + comparisons to 1st gen, ND2, & Elantra N

[mistople]

I just picked up a 2023 Premium MT in Steel for MSRP with no options other than floor mats. It cost me $32,384 + TTL. I couldn't find one near that price or in that color locally, so I ended up flying out of state to buy and pick up the car.



For context, I've owned a 2017 BRZ PP, a 2020 ND2 Miata, and a 2023 Elantra N (which I still have). I'll use those for comparisons here and there.

The drive back was mostly highway but had mountain roads along the way. So I feel like I got a decent first taste of what it's like.

What I like

No car in the price range handles like this out of the box. I'm particularly impressed with the sensation from the rear and as you accelerate out of corners. I always felt my 2017 BRZ had a bit of a disconnected rear feeling. No such problems here. It really feels like it's rotating underneath you in a very natural way. It's especially rewarding after driving an FWD platform for the last year. The ND2 is similarly agile and connected but rolls so much in stock form that it isn't quite as confidence-inspiring. It also dances over rough roads and feels like it can't retain traction in those conditions by comparison. The Elantra N is very good at speed but feels heavy and, more importantly, LONG. It feels like you're driving the front of the car, not the whole car. The N feels like it kind of wants to drift wide when cornering and I never really got used to that sensation. But there's no arguing that isn't an absolute weapon—just a different formula.

The steering feel is still great. The recent complaints that have been popping up feel way overblown to me. It feels like my old BRZ but maybe just a little lighter. It's better than the ND2 in terms of feel and directness. The N feels the most artificial of the three.

Suspension is surprisingly comfortable on rough roads. I expected worse and I know things will change in the winter on these particular dampers. It feels like a good balance for stock. It rolls a bit but nothing extreme. I'm sure the car would feel much more stable after coilovers and alignment but I'm sure just an alignment would be a good step in the right direction. There's a bit of instability on initial turn in but once things weigh up it feels very locked in. The N is much firmer even in the softest setting. the ND2 is soft but doesn't ride well over bumps even so.

The shifter is great. Like the old one but better and less picky in certain gear transitions. No complaints. The ND2 shifter is probably subjectively easier and better overall but lacks character in a way. I prefer the bolt-action feeling of the GR86.

Engine torque even during break-in conditions (4-5k and below for me) is noticeable. Passing in 6th is a non-issue and it feels so much faster under normal driving conditions.

The cabin is a nice place to be. It feels just nice enough and isn't trying to prove anything. Head unit is at least twice as fast as the big tablet-style version of Subaru's infotainment found in Outbacks etc. I fit in it easily unlike the ND2 which was just an inch or two too small for me at near 6ft tall. The seats are great. I like them better than the Recaros in the ND2 and the bucket-ish N seats.

The car is almost objectively nice to look at. Hard to argue since it's not particularly offensive unless you hate duckbills. I don't feel like a douche driving it around unlike the N or my red miata.

What I don't like

I admit I was surprised how much the engine still sounds like a tractor. It feels very unrefined and raw in maybe not such a good way. It's probably not much different from the FA20 in that regard. It's better once you get some revs going but it's kind of a let down around town. What's subjectively worse is that, because there's no real exhaust note until you're up in the revs more, you're hearing all of the mechanical things going on. Many of those things aren't super nice to listen to. Lifters, transmission noises, some odd clicks and clacks, etc., make it feel very raw. I like this and I don't like this depending on my mood. Not new to this gen however. For comparison, the ND2 and Elantra N powertrains are on another planet in terms of smoothness/refinement. But they pay the price of feeling somewhat disconnected from you. I basically only hear exhaust and turbo on the N. I miss the raw engine sounds sometimes. The ND2 is a masterclass but it lacks any real character and sounds very buzzy and small w/o exhaust mods.

As was the case with my 2017 BRZ, this is not a particularly easy or forgiving car to get rolling. The throttle and clutch feel leave you guessing a bit. This would be an area I'm specifically looking to address with modifications. It feels harder to rev-match downshift and heel toe than any of the previous manual cars I've owned. But it's also true that I'm still new to the car so go figure. The ND2 made you basically kick the throttle to get the revs up enough to downshift. I guess every car has it's quirks.

I was surprised to find the brakes requiring quite a LOT of pressure to stop the car under heavier braking conditions. I recall my PP brembos being similar but I've had more than a few "oh shit this isn't stopping that fast" moments already. It could be that it just requires force by design, or it could be that the stock PP pads were really that much better. I'm not including comparisons to track pads I used on the PP which are a totally different ballgame. It can go the other way—The Elantra N brakes feel very on/off but feel like they could stop a train. Too early to tell if that's just artificial boosting or they are indeed that much more capable.

Any questions for those of you looking to buy one? Current owners: agree or disagree with anything? Curious what you think.

[Arthur-A]

I think throttle issue should be easily fixed by a proper tune. After I had my EVO X and its great throttle settings I'm confident that any electronic throttle can be turned so that it 100% feels like drive by cable.

[vindiesel]

Yeah, don’t modify the clutch spring until you put 2-3000 miles on it. My clutch eased up a substantial amount after this and there is no guessing and it’s not finicky anymore. Everyone is too impulsive on modifying everything. Drive it as is for awhile.

Rev matching is easy… it’s more of a stab the throttle instead of a tap.

Brakes just need different pads. I don’t push the car enough on a regular to justify swapping them out yet or enough extended heating to feel the fade people talk about.

Put some miles on it it will grow on you

[ZDan]

Surprised at your impression of these brakes and the PP Brembos. I always found them to be quite responsive, quite happy with the OEM pads for street use in both cars.

At the track, I do miss the Brembos! Under super-hard usage (both with CSG Spec pads, C2 all around on PP, C2 front C11 rear on the '23) they just feel more solid vs. dinky rotors and sliding calipers...

[NoHaveMSG]

Glad to have you back !!!!!!!!

[dragoontwo]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Surprised at your impression of these brakes and the PP Brembos. I always found them to be quite responsive, quite happy with the OEM pads for street use in both cars.

At the track, I do miss the Brembos! Under super-hard usage (both with CSG Spec pads, C2 all around on PP, C2 front C11 rear on the '23) they just feel more solid vs. dinky rotors and sliding calipers...

I didn't really care for how the brakes felt since new, but I have found that they shipped my car out with air in the ABS unit which when I bled out improved the brake feel.

[mistople]

Originally Posted by vindiesel

Yeah, don’t modify the clutch spring until you put 2-3000 miles on it. My clutch eased up a substantial amount after this and there is no guessing and it’s not finicky anymore. Everyone is too impulsive on modifying everything. Drive it as is for awhile.

Rev matching is easy… it’s more of a stab the throttle instead of a tap.

Brakes just need different pads. I don’t push the car enough on a regular to justify swapping them out yet or enough extended heating to feel the fade people talk about.

Put some miles on it it will grow on you

No plans to change anything for a bit. The clutch is fine for me. It's really the throttle that always catches me off guard.

Originally Posted by ZDan

Surprised at your impression of these brakes and the PP Brembos. I always found them to be quite responsive, quite happy with the OEM pads for street use in both cars.

At the track, I do miss the Brembos! Under super-hard usage (both with CSG Spec pads, C2 all around on PP, C2 front C11 rear on the '23) they just feel more solid vs. dinky rotors and sliding calipers...

It's possible I'm too used to the boosted Elantra N brakes. I'll give some updates after they have some more miles on them.

[96z2]

Thanks for the excellent comparison. I also had a 2017 BRZ w/PP and am considering a GR86. You mentioned the GR86 was surprisingly comfortable on rough roads - was it noticeably more so than the BRZ PP Sachs shocks? Those shocks were widely reported to be valved very stiff on compression, probably to give the impression of sportiness at the expense of compliance over rough roads. As a result I thought it was skittish over high frequency bumps and rough roads and a bit tiresome as a daily driver.

I test drove a Gen 2 BRZ extensively and the ride was much better than the 2017 BRZ w/PP. I'm guessing the GR86 is still noticeably more compliant than the Gen 1 PP shocks despite the slightly more sporty tune to the shocks compared to the Gen 2 BRZ?

[otter]

Originally Posted by mistople

As was the case with my 2017 BRZ, this is not a particularly easy or forgiving car to get rolling. The throttle and clutch feel leave you guessing a bit.

Removing the clutch assist spring fixes most of this issue. Otherwise it's just a matter of getting used to the slower throttle response.

[fredzy]

Originally Posted by mistople

What I don't like

I admit I was surprised how much the engine still sounds like a tractor. ... I like this and I don't like this depending on my mood

Ha, yes!

The throttle and clutch feel leave you guessing a bit. This would be an area I'm specifically looking to address with modifications. It feels harder to rev-match downshift and heel toe than any of the previous manual cars I've owned. But it's also true that I'm still new to the car so go figure.

Very similar issues here. I never had any problem with the clutch, to the point where I wonder what is wrong with me considering everyone else's thoughts. But the throttle response is pretty disappointing. It took me a few thousand miles to finally get used to it and be able to blip properly most of the time. I'm just glad getting used to it hasn't somehow made driving my other manual vehicle seem weird. Overall I'm as smooth driving it as I've ever been with any manual I've owned.

My stock brakes felt great though. I love that OEM Akebono compound for street, dirty as it is.

[O Haiii]

Thanks for the insightful comparison. I have just one question. If you had to pick between EN and the 86 purely for driving enjoyment, which one would you take? If you already had a practical daily and can only keep 1, the en or the gr. Thanks.

[mistople]

Originally Posted by O Haiii

Thanks for the insightful comparison. I have just one question. If you had to pick between EN and the 86 purely for driving enjoyment, which one would you take? If you already had a practical daily and can only keep 1, the en or the gr. Thanks.

Absolutely without question the GR86 in terms of driving enjoyment.

The N is fun and theatrical but it's mostly only fun at high speeds. The GR is fun everywhere, all the time. The sensations from the chassis and the fact that it's RWD make it an infinitely more engaging car IMO.

If I had to pick one for a practical daily the question gets harder. If you don't have kids, the GR. If you do, you'd all but be required to get the N for the back seats. I have a separate family car so I can swing the GR even as a dad.

[O Haiii]

Originally Posted by mistople

Absolutely without question the GR86 in terms of driving enjoyment.

The N is fun and theatrical but it's mostly only fun at high speeds. The GR is fun everywhere, all the time. The sensations from the chassis and the fact that it's RWD make it an infinitely more engaging car IMO.

If I had to pick one for a practical daily the question gets harder. If you don't have kids, the GR. If you do, you'd all but be required to get the N for the back seats. I have a separate family car so I can swing the GR even as a dad.

Thanks. Im so glad i stumbled upon this thread. I'm in the market for 1 car and I am having the hardest time deciding between the EN and GR86. I know they're probably not the 2 cars people cross shop, but for some reason I find both them equally appealing for different reasons. I already have a daily so convenience is not a factor. Do you plan on getting rid of your EN anytime soon? Why or why not? Also, how bad really is the rev hang / sluggish throttle response people seem to be complaining about? Thanks again!

[mistople]

Originally Posted by O Haiii

Thanks. Im so glad i stumbled upon this thread. I'm in the market for 1 car and I am having the hardest time deciding between the EN and GR86. I know they're probably not the 2 cars people cross shop, but for some reason I find both them equally appealing for different reasons. I already have a daily so convenience is not a factor. Do you plan on getting rid of your EN anytime soon? Why or why not? Also, how bad really is the rev hang / sluggish throttle response people seem to be complaining about? Thanks again!

I will sell the N, yeah. Mostly because I’d choose to take out a manual lightweight RWD sports car over a FWD boostmobile 9/10 times. The N is a killer, but it’s not connected in the same ways until you’re at much higher speeds. It’s not fun to just chuck around IMO. It’s too long to get that Miata/86 feeling. I will miss the engine though. That’s a real highlight. If you have a daily I’d say 100% get the small RWD fun machine!

Can’t comment on rev hang since I had the DCT version. The manual probably would be more fun but I hear it’s ok at best. Unless you meant the 86. In which case all I can say is that the throttle response and curve doesn’t feel great all the time but you do get used to it. It’s not some huge dealbreaker issue. I don’t notice rev hang if there is any. I’ll probably try a pedal commander until I tune the car to help solve for the tricky throttle response. For me it’s only an issue with heel toe. I don’t have issues getting off the line or anything like many have reported.