Toyota 86 Shooting Brake Concept revealed!

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

If they could ship it under 2850 lbs fully fueled and operational, add 4" of leg room in the rear, keep the suspension the same and priced under $28k I'd be standing in line for it check book in hand for the down payment and phone in the other listing mine for sale.

Same. And I had planned on keeping my Monogram forever.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

If they could ship it under 2850 lbs fully fueled and operational, add 4" of leg room in the rear, keep the suspension the same and priced under $28k I'd be standing in line for it check book in hand for the down payment and phone in the other listing mine for sale.

List one shootingbrake that was lighter and had more leg space than counter part coupe?

[v12]

this concept looks better expect tail lamps

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

List one shootingbrake that was lighter and had more leg space than counter part coupe?

The modern usage of shooting brake is typically applied to coupes that only seat two in the first place. But yes you're right, the 4" is a wish that I feel is doable, I believe the rear seats in the 86 are limited not by wheelbase or any regulation but rather a function of the headroom created by the rear glass, with the sloped rear turned into a flat roof the seats should be able to shift back an inch or two with some changes to the sheetmetal that will likely be changed anyway in the process of stiffening to support the hatch.

And I gave a generous 100 lbs extra over published curb weight, people have reported spot on with 2,750-2,760 lbs with a full tank of gas. When I last weighed my 86 with 1/8th of a tank of gas and all the trunk stuff removed it came in at ~2,610 lbs.

According to this Toyota only added 125 lbs for the hatch on the Altezza/IS300 when they designed it 16 years ago:

http://www.new-cars.com/2003/lexus/l...300-specs.html

I'm hoping they made a touch of progress in design capability since then, and the 86 hatch won't be as large as the IS300's needed to be as they won't bother dropping the floor for storage space. What I'm asking for is indeed difficult, but not impossible as you wish to imply.


The legspace might not be doable, especially on a budget, but the rest of my wishlist should be. I would have bought the 86 without rear seats anyway.

[mrderp]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

Same. And I had planned on keeping my Monogram forever.

I third the motion!

[turtlefeeder]

ahhhh!! nuuuu they tried that with the Lexus is 300 and it didn't sell to well... what're they thinking!!

[MJones_RB]

Shooting brakes are oddly popular with certain class of consumers. I believe they were originally designed for hunting clubs? I'll have to Google that.

[jebsmeister]

Why just why?

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[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by MJones_RB

Shooting brakes are oddly popular with certain class of consumers. I believe they were originally designed for hunting clubs? I'll have to Google that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting-brake

Extremely small, extremely rabid.

[SuperDave]

if they have usable backseats i'll buy it!

and i still love this concept!

http://jalopnik.com/the-subaru-cross...ake-1468157285

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Automakers may be making them in droves, but I doubt they're selling that well, they take a pretty hard hit on resale and they're almost always discounted on the lot from what I've seen, actual production numbers of the FiST/FoST are relatively small compared to the volume of the eco-boxes.

If hot hatches were poor sellers, every automaker would probably not have one. Looking at Goodcar/Badcar it's difficult to break down sales numbers without trim levels on cars like the FiST & FoST, but Hot Hatches like the GTi, Veloster, and Mini give a good idea at what Toyota could be missing out on.

Vehicle Sales April 2016 YTD
VW GTi - 7085
VW Golf-R - 1851
Hyundai Veloster - 9258
Mini Cooper Hardtop 2 door -4422
Scion TC - 3838
Scion FR-S 2414
Subaru BRZ - 1677

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2016/05...-by-model.html

Based on the above my guess is that most hot hatches easily outsell the twins combined in the U.S. So where are you getting your numbers from? If you were just going off resale value, that's poor indicator of sales.

Hot hatches take a hard hit on resale not because of poor popularity or low sales volume, but instead because they're based on economy cars that tend to deprecate fast regardless of the trim level.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

If hot hatches were poor sellers, every automaker would probably not have one. Looking at Goodcar/Badcar it's difficult to break down sales numbers without trim levels on cars like the FiST & FoST, but Hot Hatches like the GTi, Veloster, and Mini give a good idea at what Toyota could be missing out on.

Vehicle Sales April 2016 YTD
VW GTi - 7085
VW Golf-R - 1851
Hyundai Veloster - 9258
Mini Cooper Hardtop 2 door -4422
Scion TC - 3838
Scion FR-S 2414
Subaru BRZ - 1677

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2016/05...-by-model.html

Based on the above my guess is that most hot hatches easily outsell the twins combined in the U.S. So where are you getting your numbers from? If you were just going off resale value, that's poor indicator of sales.

Hot hatches take a hard hit on resale not because of poor popularity or low sales volume, but instead because they're based on economy cars that tend to deprecate fast regardless of the trim level.

Those are much better numbers than I would have guessed on the GTI and Golf-R, last I looked they were still grouping them under the regular Golf so I just assumed the worst. I am legitimately surprised that the GTI moved 7k units to the base Golf's 4k YTD, but looking at last year the split is 50/50, maybe dieselgate hit the base model harder than the GTI.

The Veloster and Mini are both including their <$20k base models in those numbers, I wouldn't mark either of those as a success for the hot hatch without seeing further breakdown as their primary selling points are high 30's mpg and affordability.

The Veloster is selling 10x better than I would have guessed, but it's really competing against the Golf+GTI combined where 9k is getting beat by 11k so far this year. Mini's numbers are barely bigger than the 86's and that model is barely a year old and should be riding out their biggest numbers right now.

Break out Mini S, Veloster Turbo, FiST and FoST sales and I'll be convinced.

Like you, I couldn't find better breakdowns, GoodCarBadCar is great, but at the mercy of what the manufacturers publish.

But I did find this Business Insider article stating that Ford expects the Fiesta ST to make up 4%-5% of total Fiesta sales, based on your link, 5% of Fiesta's sold in April would be ~766 units last month.

Ford's "ST brand manager" and chief engineer are quoted as follows in the article:

Liz Elser, the marketing manager for the ST, told Business Insider that the performance variant of the car "absolutely" offers benefits for the entire lineup, even if it accounts for few sales. When Ford did the same thing with the Focus ST, it was a "great way to reinvigorate the Ford brand," she said, noting that the ST brings in conquest customers.

Ford Chief Engineer of Global Performance Vehicles Kerry Baldori put it a different way, saying his team's job is "to polish the Ford oval."

http://www.businessinsider.com/fords...e-smart-2013-9

Apply that 5% to the Veloster, Cooper, Abarth, hell even the Focus for their higher trim big engine models that are actually comparable to the 86's price point and sounds pretty dismal to me. 5% of the 66k Focus' sold this year is ~3.3k, only up ~300 to 86's sold in the same time period.

So yes, the GTI, reigning king of hatchbacks does seem to be selling well enough on it's 35 years of brand history to justify it's existence enough as a data point to use as justification for making an 86 shooting brake and I casually dismiss your submission of the Hardtop and Veloster. If you find data point #2 I'd be ecstatic to see it, but I haven't seen anything to make me think that hot hatches are moving units on their own.

Improving brand image and driving sales of a base model? Hell yeah, pony cars have been doing that for decades, but that's not an argument that justifies an 86 shooting brake.

[p1l0t]

Wow they can gayify anything nowadays. Not that there's anything wrong that.. I say if your into that sort of thing more power to you, whatever makes you happy.

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[Bristecom]

I'm sorry but what's the point of doing this? If you want a wagon, buy a car designed as a wagon. As mentioned before, doing this adds weight, makes it less rigid, and only adds a tiny bit of height to what you can store in the trunk. It would be totally retarded for Toyota or Subaru to invest any time into producing this. Just get one of the many wagons already out there.

But seriously, what would you need to fit in the trunk that would make it so desirable to want one of these? It just boggles my mind...