New BRZ vs Keiichi Tsuchiya's 86

[nikitopo]

Side by side comparison of the new BRZ and a light-tuned first generation 86. I would say that the BRZ owner remained speechless when driving the 86 and Keiichi's eyes were laughing. Long story short, it is better value for money to buy a good condition used 86/BRZ (Keiichi bought it 1/3rd the original price) and improve it step by step. Of course, new car is also good and it can reach a higher level if it is tuned.

[SockMonkey]

LOL what world do you live in that you can find a good condition, few year old twin for 1/3 the price??... A beat, high miles, salvage title 2013 sells for 1/3 the price around here.

(Just noticed Greece, don't know what it's like there, but I sold my 2013 BRZ 6 months ago, just as the market started going crazy for over $14k.. HALF what I'm buying a 2022 for.)

[Pete]

If you can find a good quality first gen for 1/3 the price (under 10k?) then hell yeah that's an incredible value! They are still great cars. It is also possible to find a good one that already has some quality modifications done, saving you even more money. Truecar tells me that most of the used 86's with lower mileage are hovering around 23k-24k though, and the value proposition is much less clear at that price, considering you can get a brand new 2nd gen for 29k.

I do agree it is likely that the new cars will be even better with the same level of tuning done.

Although I am not planning on FI right off the bat, I am very interested to see how much reliable power can be made with turbo/supercharging on the new engine now that it has more displacement with stronger rods & pistons. It's a big question mark if it can be done reliably, but imagine what 300 whp would feel like in this light of a car.

[ayau]

Comparing used car prices to new car prices doesn't make any sense. Of course an NB Miata is a better "value" than a new ND2 Miata. It's called depreciation.

The 2nd gen is objectively better in almost every aspect.

[SockMonkey]

Originally Posted by Pete

If you can find a good quality first gen for 1/3 the price (under 10k?) then hell yeah that's an incredible value! They are still great cars. It is also possible to find a good one that already has some quality modifications done, saving you even more money. Truecar tells me that most of the used 86's with lower mileage are hovering around 23k-24k though, and the value proposition is much less clear at that price, considering you can get a brand new 2nd gen for 29k.

I do agree it is likely that the new cars will be even better with the same level of tuning done.

Although I am not planning on FI right off the bat, I am very interested to see how much reliable power can be made with turbo/supercharging on the new engine now that it has more displacement with stronger rods & pistons. It's a big question mark if it can be done reliably, but imagine what 300 whp would feel like in this light of a car.

Exactly. If I wanted to do a crazy all out build, yeah, I'd find an older good condition twin to dump a ton of $$ into. But buying a 2018 for just a few thousand less than a brand new '22, that I then have to spend several thousand to upgrade and tune, just makes no sense to me. I'd be at the same price, same power, but a used car with less/no warranty. I'll take the new car and maybe do those same mods down the road and be even better.

[PulsarBeeerz]

Originally Posted by SockMonkey

LOL what world do you live in that you can find a good condition, few year old twin for 1/3 the price??... A beat, high miles, salvage title 2013 sells for 1/3 the price around here.

(Just noticed Greece, don't know what it's like there, but I sold my 2013 BRZ 6 months ago, just as the market started going crazy for over $14k.. HALF what I'm buying a 2022 for.)

He is referenced Keiichi, who bought the car a few years ago before Covid hit. HotVersion bought a 2013 86 channel car with 60Km for 860,000yen ~$8000 at the time. It was literally a different time. haha

[Yoshoobaroo]

Keep in mind used car prices in Japan are really low. The laws surrounding taxing and inspection encourage people buying new, in part to ensure the local car industry stays stimulated. That’s why you can find low mileage JDM cars available from importers even though they’re 25 years old!

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by ayau

Comparing used car prices to new car prices doesn't make any sense. Of course an NB Miata is a better "value" than a new ND2 Miata. It's called depreciation.

The 2nd gen is objectively better in almost every aspect.

you had me at the first part. lost me on the second.

my first gen is already bought, paid for, doesn't have a horrific digital dash, or extra electronic nannies.

the motor is slightly improved, but the styling is more polarizing/bland/boring to existing owners, but besides the motor, offers no mechanical improvements over 1st gen outside of that. the chassis is the same, with the same rigidity improvements of the 2020 model, the brakes are the same, and the transmission is the same...

[SockMonkey]

Originally Posted by soundman98

you had me at the first part. lost me on the second.

my first gen is already bought, paid for, doesn't have a horrific digital dash, or extra electronic nannies.

the motor is slightly improved, but the styling is more polarizing/bland/boring to existing owners, but besides the motor, offers no mechanical improvements over 1st gen outside of that. the chassis is the same, with the same rigidity improvements of the 2020 model, the brakes are the same, and the transmission is the same...

Being bought and paid for has literally no bearing on the car what-so-ever for anyone but you... lol, so mentioning it is pointless to a comparison. No one is trying to convince you you need to upgrade. I own either right now. What extra nannies? unless you go with an auto for the eye-sight... My 2022 premium has no more nannies than my '13 did. Your only valid point is the LCD dash.

And you are wrong on almost every point, even if it's minor, have you done no research? Lower CG, improved transmission, improved body rigidity (this is the first time I've seen someone claim the 2020 has the same), aluminum knuckle, 20% more displacement, and more. Have you been living under a rock? My only complaint is the lack of a PP, so I'll do my own brembo swap.

Looks are a moot point in discussions like this. So, yeah, the '22 is better in almost every measurable way...

[soundman98]

i like my rock. it's cozy.

[ayau]

Originally Posted by soundman98

you had me at the first part. lost me on the second.

my first gen is already bought, paid for, doesn't have a horrific digital dash, or extra electronic nannies.

the motor is slightly improved, but the styling is more polarizing/bland/boring to existing owners, but besides the motor, offers no mechanical improvements over 1st gen outside of that. the chassis is the same, with the same rigidity improvements of the 2020 model, the brakes are the same, and the transmission is the same...

The 2nd gen project was a failure according to your standards. Toyota/Subaru management should be fired.

In fact, the entire car industry should re-evaluate itself on its definition of a "refresh".

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by ayau

The 2nd gen project was a failure according to your standards. Toyota/Subaru management should be fired.

In fact, the entire car industry should re-evaluate itself on its definition of a "refresh".

exactly. now you're getting it.

BRING BACK THE IDX

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by soundman98

exactly. now you're getting it.

BRING BACK THE IDX

What do you mean, Back? Can’t bring back something that was never brought!

[Midnightsky]

Originally Posted by soundman98

exactly. now you're getting it.

BRING BACK THE IDX

Only a fool would go anywhere near modern Nissan trash that was ruined by Renault having their grubby little mitts into Nissan's business. FK NISSAN.