COVID Developments and News

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by weederr33

So are work they want workers to social distance at 6ft but don't require us to wear a mask. O_o

Wear one anyway

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Wear one anyway

No. I feel no need to. But I just find it all ironic.

[Atmo]

"The vaccination requirement will be the first time the federal government has implemented any type of vaccination requirement besides those for federal government employees."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/biden-n...edicaid-funds/

A couple months ago I read an article in our statewide newspaper that about 70% of nursing home caregivers are vaccine hesitant. Hard to imagine, but I haven't seen reliable data to suggest they're carriers since they're all screened before their shift and also subject to random state health authority tests.

I can see vaxx hesitant caregivers quitting in droves to make more money sitting home with enhanced unemployment benefits than working for minimum wage. The collateral damage could be the nursing home residents not getting adequate care.

The article doesn't say that many nursing home deaths in some large population states were a result of COVID infected patients ordered to move from hospital care back into nursing homes, infecting formerly healthy residents.

[Capt Spaulding]

Originally Posted by weederr33

No. I feel no need to. But I just find it all ironic.

Mind if I ask why you don't feel that particular need?

[Capt Spaulding]

For all the people squawking about their rights, as a veteran of a few negatively received protests in the late 60s and having watched the protests over George Floyd's murder, I understand. Rights can be fragile. But I think many here misunderstand the driving force behind the Constitution. As James Madison (the guy who pretty much brought it to life) wrote,

In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself.

The Federalist No. 51 Emphasis mine.

The preservation of liberty was important, but the maintenance of order was paramount. Over the centuries that have followed the phrase "system of ordered liberty" has been used countless times by the US Supreme Court to describe what Madison was talking about.

License, the power to do whatever the hell one might want to do, gave guys like Madison, Hamilton, and Washington really bad nightmares. They wanted nothing to do with that. They wanted liberty (which differs from many current views of "freedom") to be carefully controlled.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by AnalogMan

Booster shot of Pfizer vaccine improves immunity

Recent clinical data from Israel (which is doing some of the best, cutting-edge, and fastest emerging research in the world on COVID):

https://www.wsj.com/articles/pfizers...le_email_share

The booster shot reduced the risk of infection in the 60-plus age group by 86% and against severe infection by 92%, according to an observational study by Israel’s second largest healthcare provider, Maccabi Health Services, released Wednesday.

Huge sigh of relief.

[Atmo]

For clarity, the National Archives attributes Madison or Hamilton as authors of Federalist No. 51. In fairness, the rest of the quoted sentence follows, bolding is mine:

"In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: You must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place, oblige it to control itself. A dependence on the people is no doubt the primary control on the government; but experience has taught mankind the necessity of auxiliary precautions."

Many other interesting topics covered in the document such as:

"In a free government, the security for civil rights must be the same as for religious rights."

https://founders.archives.gov/docume.../01-04-02-0199

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by weederr33

No. I feel no need to. But I just find it all ironic.

Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding

Mind if I ask why you don't feel that particular need?

Ditto. Weederr, I thought you were on board.

[Capt Spaulding]

Originally Posted by Atmo

For clarity, the National Archives attributes Madison or Hamilton as authors of Federalist No. 51. In fairness, the rest of the quoted sentence follows, bolding is mine:

"In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: You must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place, oblige it to control itself. A dependence on the people is no doubt the primary control on the government; but experience has taught mankind the necessity of auxiliary precautions."

Many other interesting topics covered in the document such as:

"In a free government, the security for civil rights must be the same as for religious rights."

https://founders.archives.gov/docume.../01-04-02-0199

True to an extent, but you only highlighted one clause and your unattributed last quotation is pretty ambiguous. What is meant by "civil rights" and in what ways does the treatment of religious rights inform our understanding of anything? What rights, if any, are absolute?

The people who wrote the Constitution were strongly influenced by Plato's thinking in "The Republic." Bluntly put, people are too ignorant, self-absorbed, and unstable to truly self govern. They were terrified of the self centered emotional nature of the people. The section you highlight is an example of Madison nodding to the anti-federalist opponents of the Constitution, but then doubling down on the need for a strong government in the unhighlighted clause.

The US Constitution is not and has never supportive of a "do what you want" approach to "freedom." Some of that generation saw that. Patrick Henry pretty much boycotted the Const. Convention. When asked why, he replied, "I smelt a rat."

You will, of course, find people twisting it to support all kinds of stuff, but those attempts, some by famous Supreme Court Justices, fall apart pretty quickly under close scrutiny.

[alphasaur]

Originally Posted by p1l0t

Nobody, lol. Meh the vaccine doesn't stop the spreading of it and apparently is ineffective against the variants so I think you can blame whoever you want but the case for mandated vaccines is out the window.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Genuinely interested at how you arrived at these conclusions, where are the studies to corroborate it?

[p1l0t]

Originally Posted by alphasaur

Genuinely interested at how you arrived at these conclusions, where are the studies to corroborate it?

I'm not going to go searching for a study for something that is now obvious.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[Lantanafrs2]

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/19/polit...vid/index.html

[Lantanafrs2]

https://www.foxnews.com/health/plast...ot-likely-help

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Ditto. Weederr, I thought you were on board.

I know it's hypocritical and blah blah blah. But I generally don't wear one when I'm at work unless a client asks me to. I do, however, wear one if there's a mask mandate. But if not, normally don't. With the Delta becoming an issue, though, I have begun to wear one more frequently in busy places. I don't go places often, nor do I go when it's busy. To be frank, and I know this is hypocritical, I feel it's a bit silly to go get vaccinate and then still be forced to wear a mask because of bunch of assholes refuse to get vaccinated.

I am all on board for people getting the vaccine. I'm fine with boosters, even. But I'm not going to drink the cool-aid more than I have to because of others. So bring on the heat or whatever else. It's just my standing. So Boom, there's everyone's surprise.