All-new 2023 Nissan Z makes world debut!

[ScoobsMcGee]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

It is still on par with the other pony cars in quality. When they went from the 280Z to the 280ZX, the car essentially went from an economy pony car to a premium grand touring car, adding many options to the car including 2+2, and to achieve this, the car was a complete redesign. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I don't think anyone is going to pulling this apart and feeling like they have a premium car. This car is not upmarket.

It lost displacement and added turbos. This is a popular trend. Turbos don't mean upmarket. In fact, the 350Z was competitive making 305hp in 2008, where the Mustang was making 300 from a 4.6L. Now, the 370z makes 332hp, which isn't even close to the 460hp that the 5.0L Mustang GT makes. The Z is dropping displacement and adding turbos to play catchup. 400hp in stock form is still not 460hp, so they need to be banking on the tunability of the turbo platform to make sense moving forward.

I know you know the difference between economy, premium and luxury. I'm sure you have seen the chassis of the Supra. Can you honestly say the Z is a ZX being so down market from the Supra, which is a premium car? Have you owned or been in a ZX compared to a 350Z? Remember, this picture is from the 90's, but does this look economy or premium, and does its modern comparison look anything like the new Z? I'll throw a picture of a Lexus SC400 interior from the same time, and the Infiniti Q60 vs new Z, but there is so much more that goes into a premium vehicle than the basic visuals...surfaces you interact with, sound deadening, knobs and spaces that have to get turned and opened, lighting, weight to objects, material selection, etc. I know you know what a premium car can feel like, so it irks me when people persist the idea that economy cars with "premium touches" like adding real or fake stitching to rubber to make it look like leather or putting a carbon fiber grain to surfaces to make it look like real carbon fiber puts the car into premium car territory.

If the point you're trying to make is that a 300ZX was upscale enough to be comparable to a same-period Lexus while the new one isn't, what is your direct experience with 300ZXes and the same year Lexus?

I used to hang out with a local NISMO group in the late 90s early 2000s that had quite a few ZXes in it. A close friend of the family had a mid 90s ES300 that their daughter still drives today, and I worked at a Cadillac dealership in 2001/2002 that stocked mid to late 90s Lexuses (Lexi?) in the used lot. They sold way more often than new Cadillacs.

It seems your memory of how the two cars compared is vastly different than mine. Marketing material pictures don't even come close to doing the differences justice. A ZX wasn't a bad car to be in, but in no way was it that upscale. Closer to the cheap car with fancy touches you mentioned than not. Meanwhile the Lexus had higher quality leather and more of it, more options in general, and digital just about everything. The Lexuses certainly seemed to hold together better as well. Sort of what that time period Lexus was known for. Something, something Matt Farah something.

As for the new car, I can't possibly comment as I haven't sat in one yet. I actually didn't have any interest in the 400z until I saw pictures of the blue one today. I certainly don't see anything in the interior picture that screams rubber with fake stitching or carbon fiber pattern on plastic, but I haven't really looked all that closely. I will say that it is bugging me that the driver and passenger seat bottoms don't match.

[vh_supra26]

https://www.nissanzclub.com/forum/th...ite-pearl.438/

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by ScoobsMcGee

If the point you're trying to make is that a 300ZX was upscale enough to be comparable to a same-period Lexus while the new one isn't, what is your direct experience with 300ZXes and the same year Lexus?

I used to hang out with a local NISMO group in the late 90s early 2000s that had quite a few ZXes in it. A close friend of the family had a mid 90s ES300 that their daughter still drives today, and I worked at a Cadillac dealership in 2001/2002 that stocked mid to late 90s Lexuses (Lexi?) in the used lot. They sold way more often than new Cadillacs.

It seems your memory of how the two cars compared is vastly different than mine. Marketing material pictures don't even come close to doing the differences justice. A ZX wasn't a bad car to be in, but in no way was it that upscale. Closer to the cheap car with fancy touches you mentioned than not. Meanwhile the Lexus had higher quality leather and more of it, more options in general, and digital just about everything. The Lexuses certainly seemed to hold together better as well. Sort of what that time period Lexus was known for. Something, something Matt Farah something.

As for the new car, I can't possibly comment as I haven't sat in one yet. I actually didn't have any interest in the 400z until I saw pictures of the blue one today. I certainly don't see anything in the interior picture that screams rubber with fake stitching or carbon fiber pattern on plastic, but I haven't really looked all that closely. I will say that it is bugging me that the driver and passenger seat bottoms don't match.

I owned two MKIV Supras, my dad had a SC400, I've been in my friend's 300ZX twin turbo, been in older Z's, been in the 350Z, own an Audi Q5, owned premium cars and economy cars, been in a number of premium, luxury and economy cars of different trims throughout my life, etc. Was the 300ZX a luxury car? No. Was it more up market than a Z car. Yes. It was in a premium category. The Supra and ZX were $40-50k in the 90's. The ZX moved the car into a different market. It wasn't so up market to be some luxury grand touring car, but it was for sure a more premium model from Nissan, which if far from what the current Z is today. It is simply a pony car; an economy car with a big engine.

It doesn't have the build quality to be a premium car. It doesn't have the feature list to be a premium car. I don't know why anyone would qualify it as a ZX. Are we thinking this vehicle is going to have supple leather seats, soft suspension, ample sound deadening, extra thick glass for reduced road noise, an attention to technology, entertainment and comforts over performance, etc. I think if anyone spent ten minutes in a MKV Supra versus this then I bet they would tell the difference. Sit in a Jetta and then sit in a A3 and touch a few controls and move around for two seconds, and it is obvious the difference.

Compared to the more overtly sporting earlier models, the 280ZX was a much softer, heavier car, with less focus on driving and more on driver comfort and refinement.[1] Softer suspension, better sound insulation, more comfortable seats, and ample equipment including high-end audio systems defined the new ZX. Many parts, including the rear-axle and the power steering came from the Datsun 810 luxury sedan.[2] Most of the design effort went into the entirely different and much more modern interior.[3] The car became a grand tourer rather than a sports car, particularly in the plush Grand Luxury versions.

I feel like it is slightly a sign of aging when someone claims newer cars are more premium or up market than they are relative to their premium and luxury counterparts. I hear it in car reviews when people whine that the premium/luxury car being reviewed doesn’t come standard with features like vented seats, seat warmers, blind spot monitoring as standard when example econobox does, which completely misses everything that makes these cars up market. Yes, features are part of it, but not all of it.

[gymratter]

[dpfarr]

Speaking of the ZX and Supra creeping up in the 90s, I wish Mitsubishi would surprise the shit out of all else and do a 3000GT.

[gymratter]

[ScoobsMcGee]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I owned two MKIV Supras, my dad had a SC400, I've been in my friend's 300ZX twin turbo, been in older Z's, been in the 350Z, own an Audi Q5, owned premium cars and economy cars, been in a number of premium, luxury and economy cars of different trims throughout my life, etc. Was the 300ZX a luxury car? No. Was it more up market than a Z car. Yes. It was in a premium category. The Supra and ZX were $40-50k in the 90's. The ZX moved the car into a different market. It wasn't so up market to be some luxury grand touring car, but it was for sure a more premium model from Nissan, which if far from what the current Z is today. It is simply a pony car; an economy car with a big engine.

It doesn't have the build quality to be a premium car. It doesn't have the feature list to be a premium car. I don't know why anyone would qualify it as a ZX. Are we thinking this vehicle is going to have supple leather seats, soft suspension, ample sound deadening, extra thick glass for reduced road noise, an attention to technology, entertainment and comforts over performance, etc. I think if anyone spent ten minutes in a MKV Supra versus this then I bet they would tell the difference. Sit in a Jetta and then sit in a A3 and touch a few controls and move around for two seconds, and it is obvious the difference.

Ah, okay. So really the point was that a 350z was much more... spartan than a 300ZX was. That I can completely agree on. Back in 2003 when the 350 came out, it wasn't terrible for a time period where many car interiors had become pretty terrible. The bubble had long since popped. It certainly didn't have the same relative build quality as the 300s did, and has aged even more poorly in what more or less has become a 20 year run. That is with the exception that I believe the VQ35/37 has been more reliable than the VG30 was, but my experience there may be skewed due to many of the 300s I've been around being modified.

I still say it is too rash to assume anything about the 400 based on pictures alone; however, Nissan does not have the R&D budget they once did. I wouldn't hold my breath for it being anything too spectacular. Still plan to drive one and see what I think. I was never overly picky on interiors.

edit: No, I have no idea why I type "z" in lower case and "ZX" in capital letters. Leaving it as it is, though...

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by gymratter

Nissan/Ford/Chevy/Toyota compare video

Interesting video and good comparison although I don't 100% agree at least with the exterior view portion (I've only driven two of the four cars so can't compare the rest).

If I was rating these cars exteriors I would rank them:

Camaro
Mustang
Supra
Z

Not sure about his lack of love for the Camaro, I think the last changes look great, but I am a bit of a Camaro fanboi (did not like the previous refresh though). I think the "bumblebee" camaro looks tired now in comparison.

[vh_supra26]

Some different color renderings for you guys.

[gymratter]

https://www.nissanzclub.com/forum/th...os-garage.452/

[HKz]

Originally Posted by dpfarr

Speaking of the ZX and Supra creeping up in the 90s, I wish Mitsubishi would surprise the shit out of all else and do a 3000GT.

since they are now under the nissan umbrella, maybe they could revive it using the z platform


keep same engine & trans, make it a little longer, throw in back seats & new interior/exterior then call it a day.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by HKz

since they are now under the nissan umbrella, maybe they could revive it using the z platform


keep same engine & trans, make it a little longer, throw in back seats & new interior/exterior then call it a day.

As long as we are throwing out hypotheticals: maybe DSM can be revived, and Dodge can put a transverse AWD V8 platform in a flattened Avenger and call it the Stealth Avenger. Sounds like a Marvel movie.

[vh_supra26]

https://www.nissanzclub.com/forum/th...me-thread.454/

[JesseG]

Originally Posted by dpfarr

Speaking of the ZX and Supra creeping up in the 90s, I wish Mitsubishi would surprise the shit out of all else and do a 3000GT.

I would love that also, and revive the Eclipse and EVO!! But unfortunately the 3000GT was a really tough sell even during its heyday. That and the 300ZX were technical marvels though.


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