All-new 2023 Nissan Z makes world debut!

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by AnalogMan

The latest photos of the Z look better to me than it initially did. The styling seems more subtle, curvaceous, sinuous, and in general, very appealing. It has a timeless aspect to it, less contrived than the previous 370Z (and without over-wrought styling gimmicks like atomic rocket bunny exaggerated side sills or goiter-size rear lip). ...

From the first silhouette of the car in the ads I really really wanted to like this car. Now that I've seen the production version, well, I just can't. I'm sorry but I don't think it will age well. It meets the current standard of a "generic sports coupe" in shape and design, and is just boring. My last hope is it looks great in person and just isn't very photo/videogenic.

Still, I'm glad Nissan is making at least this one last version of a great car with a hell of a true legacy (unlike the 86 and Supra which are legacy adjacent but not the real thing)

[AnalogMan]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I wouldn't be surprised if supply chain setbacks lead to price increases, but maybe not. Has that happened? Also, this is a 2023 model, slated to come out sometime in 2022. The GR86 will be in late 2021 to early 2022, so I would expect the Z to be mid to late 2022 to early 2023, which means there is more time to get the car ready for production. Definitely worth waiting until the frenzy and dealer markups cool down.

I was thinking that supply constraints would lead to more rapacious dealer ADM's. I doubt the manufacturers would raise prices at their levels. But with other cars on the market right now, ADM's are more the rule rather than the exception, even for relatively pedestrian cars.

A couple of years ago, Stingers could be routinely found for $3-$4k under MSRP. Now most dealers want $1-$2k over sticker. I would expect the same (or worse) for a hot, new, in-demand desirable car. Especially with Nissan dealers, who (in my own personal experiences) have been the absolutely sleaziest of all. Wouldn't be surprised to see it on the BRZ/86 as well.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

So Sport, Performance and Proto trims.

...

I bet the Sport will have less features than the old Sport model, but more features than the base 370Z. I’m expecting LSD and optional carbon fiber driveshaft on all trims. Sport would have a basic stereo system, cloth interior, basic manual adjusting seats, basic brakes, no spoiler or front lip, no sport exhaust, strut bar (looks adjustable BTW), cast aluminum wheels, basic sport tires, smaller infotainment screen, etc. Spoiler and front lip could be dealer add-ons. Two-toned paint is optional at a premium maybe. Stuff like that. Might have a technology package. Might have a sports package. I’m guessing the Sport trim will start around $35k. The Performance will be $38-40k and the Proto will be a launch edition with special coloring, badging and maybe a few extra bits priced around $43k. I think a NISMO edition is a few years away after they milk the hype.

It looks official that all models will have the carbon fiber driveshaft, but all I see in the press release and every media article about the car is that you have to get the Performance trim package to get the MECHANICAL LSD. That tells me that the base (Sport) trim has an open differential or some brake dragging BS (fake) smart LSD. Seems dumb.

Also the fact that they haven't mentioned curb weight yet is not a good sign. I think it'll be kept in check and be in line with the Supra (basically talking a 100-150 lb gain) but that they don't mention it...isn't good. I mean these jackasses are highlighting the turbine speed gauge feature (who gives a crap about that gimmick?) but won't mention curb weight? Come on now...

[Irace86.2.0]

Have to wait and see the official pricing and feature list for each trim before we can fo an apples and apples comparison.

I’m sure curb weight is 3500lbs+

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I’m sure curb weight is 3500lbs+

Yea that’s what i’m expecting too. It’s a bit of a red flag to me that Nissan still won’t commit to a weight figure.

[vh_supra26]

https://www.nissanzclub.com/forum/th...es-square.437/

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Yea that’s what i’m expecting too. It’s a bit of a red flag to me that Nissan still won’t commit to a weight figure.

Maybe the carbon fiber driveshaft is an attempt to lower weight and a performance gift as a consolation for the higher curb weight. This will have turbos, intercoolers, parking sensors, etc. The Supra is more premium, but only has one turbo and a more compact/light engine and a lot of aluminum, so I wouldn’t be surprised if this is heavier than the Supra, and Nissan doesn’t want to mention that, especially if Nissan is comparing this car to the Supra to market it as the cheaper alternative, while justifying the price bump through that comparison.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Maybe the carbon fiber driveshaft is an attempt to lower weight

The Z has had a graphite driveshaft since 2003 though.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

The Z has had a graphite driveshaft since 2003 though.

Didn’t know that. Thanks.

[vh_supra26]

https://www.nissanzclub.com/forum/th...previewed.442/

[WolfpackS2k]

I honestly consider this a 300ZX, even if they're just calling it Z (dumb to me).

3.0 liter V6, check.
Twin Turbos, check.

The late, great 300ZX from the 90s had 300 hp and weighed over 3600 lb and cost around $40k (creeped over the years as exchange rate got worse). If this can be around 3500 lb and $40-45k (properly equipped) then we really can't complain too much.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I honestly consider this a 300ZX, even if they're just calling it Z (dumb to me).

3.0 liter V6, check.
Twin Turbos, check.

The late, great 300ZX from the 90s had 300 hp and weighed over 3600 lb and cost around $40k (creeped over the years as exchange rate got worse). If this can be around 3500 lb and $40-45k (properly equipped) then we really can't complain too much.

It is still on par with the other pony cars in quality. When they went from the 280Z to the 280ZX, the car essentially went from an economy pony car to a premium grand touring car, adding many options to the car including 2+2, and to achieve this, the car was a complete redesign. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I don't think anyone is going to pulling this apart and feeling like they have a premium car. This car is not upmarket.

It lost displacement and added turbos. This is a popular trend. Turbos don't mean upmarket. In fact, the 350Z was competitive making 305hp in 2008, where the Mustang was making 300 from a 4.6L. Now, the 370z makes 332hp, which isn't even close to the 460hp that the 5.0L Mustang GT makes. The Z is dropping displacement and adding turbos to play catchup. 400hp in stock form is still not 460hp, so they need to be banking on the tunability of the turbo platform to make sense moving forward.

I know you know the difference between economy, premium and luxury. I'm sure you have seen the chassis of the Supra. Can you honestly say the Z is a ZX being so down market from the Supra, which is a premium car? Have you owned or been in a ZX compared to a 350Z? Remember, this picture is from the 90's, but does this look economy or premium, and does its modern comparison look anything like the new Z? I'll throw a picture of a Lexus SC400 interior from the same time, and the Infiniti Q60 vs new Z, but there is so much more that goes into a premium vehicle than the basic visuals...surfaces you interact with, sound deadening, knobs and spaces that have to get turned and opened, lighting, weight to objects, material selection, etc. I know you know what a premium car can feel like, so it irks me when people persist the idea that economy cars with "premium touches" like adding real or fake stitching to rubber to make it look like leather or putting a carbon fiber grain to surfaces to make it look like real carbon fiber puts the car into premium car territory.

[alphasaur]

I'm going to guess ~3500-3600lbs being that the q60 is ~3800 and is 2+2, 1 foot longer, has more sound deadening, auto etc.

That's not too bad weight wise IMO with the challenger being like 4000lbs and mustang being ~3700.

On q60 forums it seems like they're making low to mid 400whp on AWD setups with mild bolt-ons and a tune. Will be fast.

[Yoshoobaroo]

3500lbs isn’t BAD, but it makes me uninterested in it as a sports car. It’s fine for a fast 400hp 4 seater grand tourer. For a sports car it’s too much IMO.