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Old 07-12-2016, 07:36 PM   #687
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Results are in:
Edelbrock
Delicious Tuning D Box
ACE Header CS400
Stock FP
Tomei 60S
91
Stock injectors and Pump

254whp and 205 tq on the heart breaker dyno.

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Old 07-31-2016, 09:25 PM   #688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Se7en_ View Post
It is 2.5"

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Quiet is good!

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Old 10-25-2016, 11:57 AM   #689
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So I'm guessing the OP was with the 350 4-2-1 headers, how does it compare to the 400?
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Old 10-25-2016, 01:16 PM   #690
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Originally Posted by Da Brz View Post
So I'm guessing the OP was with the 350 4-2-1 headers, how does it compare to the 400?
The A/350 is the flagship. It's lighter, and makes a broader powerband, with more peak output.

If you want the majority of the performance and a touch more bottom end torque, at a slightly lower price, the CS400 is a great option; both are in stock at CSG.

Last edited by CSG Mike; 10-25-2016 at 04:54 PM.
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Old 06-19-2017, 05:17 AM   #691
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Does anyone have the dyno charts for a stock car v.s an e85 with ACE400 and/or ACE250 and tune? The charts on the front page are no longer visible.

I'm trying to optimise for track driving and will live with whatever happens for DD. I think I can only choose from the 250 and 400 given a RHD car correct?

Last edited by Hags86; 06-19-2017 at 06:15 AM.
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Old 06-19-2017, 07:03 AM   #692
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Well, 150 most probably also will clear, but it's hardly advisable for dual-purpose car, as all it's gains are even more optimised for top-rpm-end only. Don't know how things are with anaconda headers, but they are optimisation wise somewhere where 150 IIRC.

If your car sees lot of track days, i'd get 250, if mostly DD, 400. If living in LHD countries, 350 .
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Old 06-19-2017, 12:07 PM   #693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CounterSpace Garage View Post
Introduction
It's been quite a while since we've posted a review of any product. While CounterSpace Garage does quite a bit of in-house, independent testing, most of the results, whether positive or negative, are usually not noteworthy, and we file the results away for reference if we ever need it. This test result, is noteworthy.

In fact, the results are so significant, that we're publishing our findings and thoughts, before we've even finished testing. This is highly out of character for CSG, but given our excitement, we hope you understand.

Testing Methodology

As always, all testing conducted by CSG is done independently, at a time, setting, and venue of our choice. Some background information on our testing choices and methodology
- We choose to use a dynapack, because results have less variation. The dyno attaches directly to the hub, and eliminates the variation introduced by the tires. There is no tire slippage, and alignment/tire pressure/wheel weight/tire weight have zero effect on the torque applied from the car's drivetrain to the ground (or rollers in the case of a Dynojet or Mustang dyno). Results are repeatable within a 0.5% window, all day, every day.
- A fresh 2015 FRS was used for testing purposes. Zero drivetrain modifications were made, other than the headers involved, overpipes, and a flex fuel kit.
- The baseline, although not the exact same car, is a 100% stock BRZ, and is in line with the baseline dynos at this facility. A baseline on the 2015 FRS with nothing on it was not run as a cost saving measure, as we believe that a reasonably large sample of data for stock numbers is out there. (Dyno time is not cheap!).
- We do not do "hero" runs. All dyno numbers shown are the numbers generated after repeated back-to-back pulls. These are real world numbers reflecting the output of the engine under a track condition. If we were to let the car cool down completely between runs, we would show higher numbers across the board.
- The tunes performed on the cars are not designed to extract every last bit of power. Rather, they are designed to be safe to run in any condition in any weather, because when we track, it's not unusual to see temperatures as low as 25F to temperatures as high as 120F. Can we extract more power that's safe to use on the street? Absolutely, but that's not how we tune our cars.

The test vehicle:

- 2015 Scion FRS, 6MT
- @Delicious Tuning Flex Fuel Kit, OEM connections
- ACN 91 octane aka "pisswater" (Arizona California Nevada)
- Propel E85, mixed with ACN91 to be E70 (time conservation, getting full E85 in the tank would take too long, so we compromised by doing all Ethanol tuning at E70).
- OEM front pipe (yes, OEM secondary cat!)
- OEM midpipe
- OEM catback exhaust
- OEM intake (including sound tube)
- OEM paper filter
- Basically the entire car is stock except for the variables below:

The test candidates:
- Leading brand UEL header and overpipe combination
- ACE 4-2-1 EL Header and overpipe

The Dynographs:

First
, here is a graph of the ACE 4-2-1 vs Stock.
- Orange - ACE 4-2-1 E70
- Red - ACE 4-2-1 ACN 91
- Green - Stock

Test notes:
- The torque dip is GONE. GONE GONE GONE. With an EL header.
- There is a gain of 10.8 lb/ft wtq, peak vs peak, on ACN 91
- There is a gain of 28.5 whp, peak vs peak, on ACN91
- There is a gain of 22 lb/ft wtq, peak vs peak, on E70 vs stock
- There is a gain of 39 whp, peak vs peak, on E70 vs stock




Second, here is the same graph of the ACE 4-2-1 vs Stock, but with the peak torque gain (maximum delta) highlighted
- Orange - ACE 4-2-1 E70
- Red - ACE 4-2-1 ACN 91
- Green - Stock

Test Notes:
- There is a peak gain of 30.4 lb/tq, on ACN 91
- There is a peak gain of 22whp at that same RPM, on ACN 91
- E70 gains speak for themselves over Stock.



Third, here is a graph of a leading UEL header + OP combo, vs the ACE 4-2-1 Header + OP. Both setups have been dyno tuned per our methodology. Peak power for ACN 91 is highlighted.
- Orange - ACE 4-2-1 E70
- Red - ACE 4-2-1 ACN 91
- Purple - UEL + OP E70
- Blue - UEL + OP ACN 91

Test notes:
- The UEL makes more power from 2400-3150 on E70
- The UEL makes more power from 2450-2950 on ACN 91
- The ACE header makes more power through the rest of the RPM range on both E70 and ACN 91.




Fourth, the same graph as above, but with E70 peaks highlighted.



Fifth
While not performed by us, here's another car on the same dyno with:
- Ptuning EL header
- Tomei Overpipe
- Tomei Straight Pipe
- OEM Cat-back
- HKS Intake Duct
- Perrin Inlet Hose
- OEM Air Filter Housing
- 91 Octane



Some followup thoughts

- ACN91 is notoriously known as "pisswater", because it is, literally, the worst "premium" octane gasoline commonly available. Despite this, MUCH more timing could be added with the ACE 4-2-1. This indicates to us that the ACE 4-2-1 is evacuating the exhaust gas out of the cylinders faster and more completely than the OEM or UEL headers. Because we are able to add timing, the 91 octane gains are larger compared to the other options.

- However, for the very reason that 91 octane gains are larger, E70 gains are smaller. Ethanol allows you to add more timing, because it is both more knock resistant, and has superior cooling properties, which are compounded by the finer atomization of Direct Injection. Because we can already run so much timing on ACN 91, Ethanol gains are lower.

- Due to time and budget constraints, we elected to test on E70, rather than E85. While E85 would certainly yield higher numbers, purging the system completely enough to have E85 (instead of E84, or E82, etc.) would have been too time consuming. We compromised by testing at E70, which we could verify via our Delicious Tuning Flex Fuel kit. Additionally, we believe these numbers to be reasonably close to E85 numbers, as Ethanol has diminishing returns as the Ethanol content goes up with Naturally Aspirated cars.

- All testing was performed with an otherwise OEM car. We believe an aftermarket front pipe will free up the exhaust flow even more, allowing for more gains. This leads us to more testing next week; the ACE header will be tested with multiple diameter front pipes to see if any of them produce better results.

- We are absolutely certain that even deleting the cat in the OEM front pipe will yield more power. We are also of the belief that a properly matched front pipe will probably flatten out the torque drop between 5000 and 6800 RPMs. This is heavily reinforced by many dynos we've seen on other cars, including the fifth dyno above, that show the 5000-6800 range being flattened out when there are no cats in the exhaust system. Any peak gains are just icing on the cake.


With these results, CounterSpace Garage looks forward to eventually becoming a vendor for the ACE header.

More testing will be conducted in the near future, to see what else this header are capable of. Currently, we believe that these are, hands down, the best header available for the car.

Future testing plans
- Test the header on the JRSC Supercharged BRZ
- Test the header with various catless front pipes

Thank you for reading!

tl;dr: this header is the best header on the market.



**Edit*






**edit**

Some pictures as requested















I love the write-up, but the photo links appear to be dead!
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Old 06-22-2017, 02:47 AM   #694
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Hi All

I need to make a call on set of headers in the next day or so and need your help. Being RHD I can go for the 250 or the 400. Other than 'the 250 is better at high revs and less so at lower revs' versus 'the 400 is better at lower revs and less so at high revs' I can't find any qualitative assessment of the two. Am I sacrificing 10% power at 4000rpm to get 2% better at 7000rpm on the 250? If that is the case I'd probably go with the 400.

If anyone can help please shout out otherwise I'll have to flip a coin!

The main plan is to optimise for track days and hopefully get a good bump for DD and flatten the torque curve. I think the 400 is better for linear torque but at what expense at the top end?
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Old 06-22-2017, 05:08 AM   #695
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Imho most would benefit from single chart listing curves of all the Ace headers on same dyno with similar tunes (eg. Delicious'). 400/350/250/150/4-1/Anacondas.
Imho having such chart should cut most questions as to which header choose for which cases and illustrate best in visual representation for gains where gets sacrificed what. If anything .. it would benefit also from stock everything with stock tune baseline of that dyno, to serve as good answer also for ones asking how much gains to be had.
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Old 06-22-2017, 07:43 AM   #696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by churchx View Post
Imho most would benefit from single chart listing curves of all the Ace headers on same dyno with similar tunes (eg. Delicious'). 400/350/250/150/4-1/Anacondas.
Imho having such chart should cut most questions as to which header choose for which cases and illustrate best in visual representation for gains where gets sacrificed what. If anything .. it would benefit also from stock everything with stock tune baseline of that dyno, to serve as good answer also for ones asking how much gains to be had.

This is assuming that people can read a dyno graph...there are plenty on here that I know can't...
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Old 08-02-2017, 05:06 PM   #697
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Picture links updated
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Old 08-31-2017, 04:53 AM   #698
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After researching headers for weeks, I came across these. I was originally sold from the beginning on UEL for that Subie rumble and magical torque dip removal with a tune, until someone mentioned in another thread this header also removed the torque dip. I had never heard of these, so I end up on this thread, and I was instantly sold. The race car sound and power potential with just a header and tune is incredible. I plan on getting a A350 and the DL tune soon, probably in the next couple months.

@CounterSpace Garage Did you guys help develop the DL tune, or was it all Delicious?

-- EDIT --
Nevermind, I just read the Ace website about their relationship with DL.

Last edited by FunnyGopher; 08-31-2017 at 05:19 AM.
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Old 08-31-2017, 10:42 AM   #699
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FunnyGopher View Post
After researching headers for weeks, I came across these. I was originally sold from the beginning on UEL for that Subie rumble and magical torque dip removal with a tune, until someone mentioned in another thread this header also removed the torque dip. I had never heard of these, so I end up on this thread, and I was instantly sold. The race car sound and power potential with just a header and tune is incredible. I plan on getting a A350 and the DL tune soon, probably in the next couple months.

@CounterSpace Garage Did you guys help develop the DL tune, or was it all Delicious?

-- EDIT --
Nevermind, I just read the Ace website about their relationship with DL.
The original Ace tune was developed in-house on Bill's personal BRZ with input from and track testing and validation by Ace and CSG.

The 2017 specific Ace tune was developed on my personal 2017 BRZ, along with track testing and validation by CSG.

The best products are often the result of several specialists who bring unique skillsets and offerings to the collaboration.
@Ace header @CounterSpace Garage @DeliciousTuning

Check out http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121460
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Old 08-31-2017, 11:18 AM   #700
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@CSG Mike
can you please elaborate on your 350 header + stock exhaust + tune about the smell, rasp and drone? Please please please Thanks
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