Issue with setup KW v3 + CS top mounts

[J95]

Hi guys, I will explain my situation and let´s hope that you have some ideas about how to fix this

I purchased a KW v3 kit, with springs 50-200 front, 60-170 rear. My goal with the suspension was to drop the car ~1.3". The problem is that I found a bargain for some used front KW CS top mounts and I was stupid enough to buy them as well. KW told me that they are compatible

but they are not, because apparently the CS top mounts attach the coilover differently and this results in shortening the useful range of the shock (or, that is what I understand after mounting them. It is just a guess)

I got the parts installed, and the result is that the car height is higher than "it should be". I will illustrate, in the pictures you can see that the front coilover is adjusted to "0" threads below the ring. So, that is the minimum possible car height. Now check how "low" is the car. I am happy with this ride height, but the setup is wrong. In theory, the car should be much lower when using the lowest thread adjustment.

The problem is, that the shock compression range is only 15 mm (mechanic told me), which is nothing, so the car handle is very bad. I want to increase the compression range, but maintain the ride height

I contacted KW and they sent me a front springs replacement of 50-170mm. They are shorter, so yes there will be more threads below the ring, but this will not fix the shock compression issue, right?? from my understanding, the compression will be always 15 mm?

I wonder what should I do... would the shorter springs indeed fix the issue? if not, should I go back to oem top mounts? I don't even know if that is the issue, looking forward to your thoughts

[Racecomp Engineering]

Need to see a picture of the coilover assembled off the car. It is difficult to diagnose without that, but there is something wrong with the installation or assembly.

- Andrew

[J95]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

Need to see a picture of the coilover assembled off the car. It is difficult to diagnose without that, but there is something wrong with the installation or assembly.

- Andrew

Thanks for your response Andrew

Do you actually know that those top mounts should work just fine?

I already took the car to another mechanic, he did not dissasembly the coilovers, but he said that it looked ok, and that I needed to go higher because of the short shock compression range.

Also, can you please confirm that swapping to shorter springs will not fix that issue?

I can try to dissasemble it myself and share a picture, but it will be quite a hasshle.

If someone can assure me that the CS mounts should not be the issue, I can do that, otherwise maybe just get them swapped for the OEM mounts and thats it

[Racecomp Engineering]

This is a similar combination (KW type coilovers with same camber plates) with 170mm springs (so 30mm shorter) but I could go down another 45mm from here. I think my ride height was about 30 to 35mm lower than OEM. These are also slightly stiffer springs. I could slam the car really low.



I'm now using the exact same springs as you but with OEM top mounts. I'm about 20mm lower than OEM and could go another maybe 35mm lower. You should be able to go even lower with the CS camber plates.

- Andrew

[J95]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

This is a similar combination (KW type coilovers with same camber plates) with 170mm springs (so 30mm shorter) but I could go down another 45mm from here. I think my ride height was about 30 to 35mm lower than OEM. These are also slightly stiffer springs. I could slam the car really low.



I'm now using the exact same springs as you but with OEM top mounts. I'm about 20mm lower than OEM and could go another maybe 35mm lower. You should be able to go even lower with the CS camber plates.

- Andrew

Andrew, thanks a lot for your time, really appreciate it

Sorry for late reply. Due to your inputs, I decided to go and dismount one front coilover myself. I will take pictures and show it here, so you guys can guide me about what the problem is. After that, I will take it to a professional to solve it properly

Btw I measured the height. The front drop is 1.37 inch (35mm), and the shock compression is 15 mm. Probably my goal is to leave it at 1.3'', trying to avoid the famous axle problems

Andrew, why did you go back to OEM top mounts? 🤔

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by J95

Andrew, why did you go back to OEM top mounts? 🤔

Mostly to add back some ride height, my car spends a lot of time in the city. I didn't need a lot of camber from top mounts either. Plus they're a little more comfortable which is nice in the city.

- Andrew

[J95]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

Mostly to add back some ride height, my car spends a lot of time in the city. I didn't need a lot of camber from top mounts either. Plus they're a little more comfortable which is nice in the city.

- Andrew

You mean that the KW mounts, when properly mounted, limit the maximum ride height?

For a mixed use (daily, spirited and 2 trackdays per year), target drop ~1.3'' and target camber ~1.5-2'', would you recommend me to go back to OEM mounts and just use camber bolts?

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by J95

You mean that the KW mounts, when properly mounted, limit the maximum ride height?

For a mixed use (daily, spirited and 2 trackdays per year), target drop ~1.3'' and target camber ~1.5-2'', would you recommend me to go back to OEM mounts and just use camber bolts?

When the spring perch is set, the KW camber plates will have the car lower compared to OEM mounts and pretty much every other camber plate. This is good because they add bump travel at a lower ride height, but yes you would not be able to go as high as you would with OEM mounts. I'm only 20mm lower than OEM in front so the OEM mounts are a good option for me.

For that much camber you don't need camber plates. With KWs you can get -2 with OEM mounts and the OEM camber/crash bolt (meaning the same lower strut bolt in top and bottom holes).

But the camber plates are nice if you are lower than 20mm for the extra bump travel.

- Andrew

[J95]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

When the spring perch is set, the KW camber plates will have the car lower compared to OEM mounts and pretty much every other camber plate. This is good because they add bump travel at a lower ride height, but yes you would not be able to go as high as you would with OEM mounts. I'm only 20mm lower than OEM in front so the OEM mounts are a good option for me.

For that much camber you don't need camber plates. With KWs you can get -2 with OEM mounts and the OEM camber/crash bolt (meaning the same lower strut bolt in top and bottom holes).

But the camber plates are nice if you are lower than 20mm for the extra bump travel.

- Andrew

Thanks for the answer. I will stay with the KWs camber plates for the extra bump travel

I could not dissasemble the coil from the car, but I took more detailed pictures. Can you guess anything from here?

Im taking the car to another shop, but it would be great if I can tell them some hints about what the issue might be. Most probably the joint coil-camber plate?

[Racecomp Engineering]

Here's what it should look like with the camber plates you have:


(the purple camber plate sits on top of the silver piece, but don't worry about that right now)

The black metal upper spring perch that sits right on top of the spring should have a flat top. And then there's another piece that helps everything rotate freely.

It looks like yours (in purple) is cone shaped but it is hard to be sure. The cone shaped piece is what you would use for standard factory top mounts. That is what I've been thinking from the beginning.

- Andrew

[MrSkubi]

I'll try to take a pic of V3 Clubsport camber plate assembly for you today. Coils are on car of course but I'll try my best

[J95]

Thank you all

You are right it looks shaped but actually it is not. I have at home the conic ones, leftovers from the original assembly (see pic). So I presume that he used the proper "less conic" plates that come with the KW camber plates kit

Im gonna buy some tools and try to dissasemble the coilover myself, will show you pics

[Racecomp Engineering]

Just measured mine again...with the 50-200 springs I'm at 345mm center of wheel hub to fender (about 20-25mm lower than stock) and I have about 15mm of thread on the coilover to go lower. I have about 75mm of bump travel not including the bumpstop. The bumpstop is 40mm.

This is with OEM factory top mounts, so with the lowering camber plates you'd have an extra about 15mm of travel (maybe more? I can't remember how much they lower) or to go lower.

- Andrew

[J95]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

Just measured mine again...with the 50-200 springs I'm at 345mm center of wheel hub to fender (about 20-25mm lower than stock) and I have about 15mm of thread on the coilover to go lower. I have about 75mm of bump travel not including the bumpstop. The bumpstop is 40mm.

This is with OEM factory top mounts, so with the lowering camber plates you'd have an extra about 15mm of travel (maybe more? I can't remember how much they lower) or to go lower.

- Andrew

Ok finally I dismounted the coilover and took measurements. Everything looks ok actually. My measurements are exactly the same as yours, so this camber plates are not adding any extra bump travel I believe. I measured:

On the car:
- 340 mm center hub to fender -> 26mm drop

On the disassembled coilover:
- 10 mm thread left, so I could go until 330mm, same as you
- 75 mm bump travel

I tried to measure how much it compresses when installed in the car, using a cable tie. I measured that it takes around 43-45mm of travel bump, and the travel left is around 30-32mm. So not the 23mm that the mechanic told me at first.

Basically it looks like the assembly is fine, is just that camber plates don't make any change in height?

Now the question, what are the benefits to swap the springs to 170-50? as I understand, travel bump will not change, but maybe worth the weight reduction?