COVID Developments and News

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by Spuds

Depends. Is the risk of some imagined adverse reaction to a vaccine worth becoming a hermit instead of getting the damn shot?

I’m not talking about the risk of vaccine or covid. The risk of everything else in life once you walk out the door.

The risk of covid is much lower than that if you make the aforementioned decisions in my previous post, yet it was still too high. So then going out side would also be too high of a risk since it’s a much greater one at that point.

[x808drifter]

Personally I'd go to 90%.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

Then I presume you never leave your house? As that risk must be too much for you too.

Risk to self is up to the individual.
Risk to others? Maybe you can handle 100mph down the alley, but the neighbor kid chasing a ball in front of your oncoming car likely won't survive. Maybe she should have looked both ways or stayed inside if scared of the risk?

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by cjd

Risk to self is up to the individual.
Risk to others? Maybe you can handle 100mph down the alley, but the neighbor kid chasing a ball in front of your oncoming car likely won't survive. Maybe she should have looked both ways or stayed inside if scared of the risk?

Horrible analogy.

Going 100mph down an alley way is highly illegal already against the law and incredibly dangerous for all parties involved. The statistical odds of that not ending well are astronomical. That scenario would make a case of covid look like a walk in the park.

it’s about acceptable risk, and what decisions you can make for yourself to mitigate and prevent these risks, and can you make decisions yourself in your own life to get the risk down to an acceptable level for you, for covid the answer is yes you can. For going 100mph down an alley where kids play with balls the clear obvious answer is no.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

Horrible analogy.

Going 100mph down an alley way is highly illegal already against the law and incredibly dangerous for all parties involved. The statistical odds of that not ending well are astronomical. That scenario would make a case of covid look like a walk in the park.

it’s about acceptable risk, and what decisions you can make for yourself to mitigate and prevent these risks, and can you make decisions yourself in your own life to get the risk down to an acceptable level for you, for covid the answer is yes you can. For going 100mph down an alley where kids play with balls the clear obvious answer is no.

Of course it's a terrible analogy, and yet it works perfectly, because it amplifies the line on where responsibility lies. When you make smarmy remarks about people being hermits, you're telling the kid it's her fault. And of course, as you say, laws, even though those tromp on my right to drive like a maniac whenever I please.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by cjd

Of course it's a terrible analogy, and yet it works perfectly, because it amplifies the line on where responsibility lies. When you make smarmy remarks about people being hermits, you're telling the kid it's her fault. And of course, as you say, laws, even though those tromp on my right to drive like a maniac whenever I please.

You’re posts continuously get more convoluted and off the mark every time…

Trying to compare and equate driving 100mph down an alleyway and hitting a kid playing with his ball.

To the normal risks normal human beings face on a daily basis when they step foot outside.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

You’re posts continuously get more convoluted and off the mark every time…

Trying to compare and equate driving 100mph down an alleyway and hitting a kid playing with his ball.

To the normal risks normal human beings face on a daily basis when they step foot outside.

An individual is not solely responsible for the level of risk they are placed in as part of society (individual child). Society has a role to play in the level of risk the individual faces (someone driving down alley being part of that society). As such society has laws and regulations which essentially limit the risks it may place on an individual (such as speed limits). We all make sacrifices in order to live in that society (obey speed limits, mostly...).

Claiming that vaccine mandates for certain professions is improper, as you often do, is counter to this idea. The decision of some personnel in medical facilities to not be vaccinated increases risks to the individuals they serve.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

Can I refund my 2 Pfizer boosters for modernas? So you'll feel safer?

You're fine. It's just an analogy.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by Spuds

An individual is not solely responsible for the level of risk they are placed in as part of society (individual child). Society has a role to play in the level of risk the individual faces (someone driving down alley being part of that society). As such society has laws and regulations which essentially limit the risks it may place on an individual (such as speed limits). We all make sacrifices in order to live in that society (obey speed limits, mostly...).

Claiming that vaccine mandates for certain professions is improper, as you often do, is counter to this idea. The decision of some personnel in medical facilities to not be vaccinated increases risks to the individuals they serve.

the risk of driving 100mph down an alleyway is so high and the reward/benefit so low a law is obviously warranted.


The risk of covid to a vaccinated individual who makes advantageous decisions for one’s own health is so low and the rewards/benefits of forcing another individual to get vaccinated for your own safety is too low to warrant an obvious law or mandate.

I’ve never once specified any profession. But yes as a general government mandate for everyone or every worker across the board to be vaccinated is BS. If you want to make a 1% exemption for specific professions largely in the medical community who specifically deal with certain high risk individuals I would be open to idea, but don’t try to use an extreme to justify the norm.

[soundman98]

i'm so damn tired of insurance companies writing electrical codes to protect people from injury.

IF I WANT TO MAKE TOAST IN THE TUB, I HAVE A RIGHT TO DO IT

what's it to you that my family gets the life insurance payout?

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by soundman98

i'm so damn tired of insurance companies writing electrical codes to protect people from injury.

IF I WANT TO MAKE TOAST IN THE TUB, I HAVE A RIGHT TO DO IT

what's it to you that my family gets the life insurance payout?

Who says you cant make toast in a tub?
You are free to do so as you wish.

You signed and agreed to the terms of your insurance policy on your own volition.
Whatever your policy states is whatever it is, it isn’t anything to anyone besides them.

[Capt Spaulding]

This has been going on for a couple of years now. Some of us need to understand that we are unlikely to be the first on the planet to persuade unreasonable people with reasoned argument. It is pretty obvious that the vaccines were remarkably effective against the variant of the virus they were designed to address. A number of people on this board and across the country said that we needed to be careful because every case of virus was an opportunity for it to mutate into a form that could evade vaccine protection. In words I used here at the time, "we can still fuck this up."

Guess what? We did, and it did. As the antivaxers brayed and the refusniks refused, the virus mutated into a variety of forms that were able to reduce the vaccine's effectiveness. Surprising? Not really, in fact it was predicted. But the the braying and refusing continued despite the fact that the braying and refusing had contributed to the ability of the virus to mutate. They claimed vindication because something had happened that THEY were at least partly responsible for.

It would be laughable were it not for the fact that the Delta and Omicron variants went on to kill hundreds of thousands of Americans. Now they are back at it. Moving the goal posts, obfuscating the facts, and continuing to bray and refuse. If there is an upside, perhaps it is that the overwhelming majority of those deaths were among the braying and refusing set. Karma can be harsh.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding

This has been going on for a couple of years now. Some of us need to understand that we are unlikely to be the first on the planet to persuade unreasonable people with reasoned argument. It is pretty obvious that the vaccines were remarkably effective against the variant of the virus they were designed to address. A number of people on this board and across the country said that we needed to be careful because every case of virus was an opportunity for it to mutate into a form that could evade vaccine protection. In words I used here at the time, "we can still fuck this up."

Guess what? We did, and it did. As the antivaxers brayed and the refusniks refused, the virus mutated into a variety of forms that were able to reduce the vaccine's effectiveness. Surprising? Not really, in fact it was predicted. But the the braying and refusing continued despite the fact that the braying and refusing had contributed to the ability of the virus to mutate. They claimed vindication because something had happened that THEY were at least partly responsible for.

It would be laughable were it not for the fact that the Delta and Omicron variants went on to kill hundreds of thousands of Americans. Now they are back at it. Moving the goal posts, obfuscating the facts, and continuing to bray and refuse. If there is an upside, perhaps it is that the overwhelming majority of those deaths were among the braying and refusing set. Karma can be harsh.

Even with 100% compliance and support, it was going to mutated regardless.
and like you said the majority of people who died are unvaccinated, so why do you care so much.
Get vaccinated and be done with it.
Most of the world and our country has moved on. You should too.

Everything in life has an inherent risk. Its an unfortunate part of life, is that its fleeting and can be taken away at any moment by an abundance of things well beyond just covid.

Over 42% of people in the USA are obese and approximately 13% smoke.
This is their choice and right to do so. But when these 2 categories that are by choice make up the largest portion of covid deaths... people should help themselves first before expecting someone else to help them.

The impact and risk that an unvaccinated person has on a non smoking, non obese, fully vaccinated individual is almost nothing at all. So don't smoke, don't be obese, and get fully vaccinated and move on with your life.


Some people want to be victims and blame everyone else for everything wrong in the world.

Other people take ownership and responsibly for their own lives and do what they can to provide the best life for themselves and their family.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding

Moving the goal posts,

Curious what goal post has been moved?

The effectiveness of lockdowns?
The effectiveness of masks?
The effectiveness of the vaccine?
The actual danger of the virus to the vast majority of the population who doesn't make poor health decisions?
The negative impact all of the measures being taken in response to covid having to the economy, children's education, families, and mental health issues?

I know those have all been moved at least 5 times each.