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Old 08-07-2020, 10:25 AM   #10893
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Super excited about this guy's! So me and @steve99 are still working on the tune and finally today he said I can go boost now. I hit 7.2psi right around 3500rpm and then at 7000rpm tapered down to 2psi and 1.5 at 7500. The car pulls right away it's crazy! I'll post a quick vdyno to compare with my last vdyno when I had only one phantom.

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Those AFRs do look concerning, maybe he wasn't anticipating that boost level. Looks a lot closer to what i would of expected. Although i thought it would hold out to around 2.5-3 PSI at redline.

You using a new MAP sensor now?
are you still using the intercooler?
You tracking your IATs?
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Old 08-07-2020, 11:33 AM   #10894
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Those AFRs do look concerning, maybe he wasn't anticipating that boost level. Looks a lot closer to what i would of expected. Although i thought it would hold out to around 2.5-3 PSI at redline.



You using a new MAP sensor now?

are you still using the intercooler?

You tracking your IATs?
I am using a new map sensor,bi haven't used the intercooler but in thinking I will since temps got up to 120 but in not sure if thats cuz the air was hot or if the sensor is reading it that hot because now it sits so much closer to the engine. Also I think the butterfly valve is opening up near redline causing the car to lose some pressure top end

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Old 08-07-2020, 12:11 PM   #10895
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I am using a new map sensor,bi haven't used the intercooler but in thinking I will since temps got up to 120 but in not sure if thats cuz the air was hot or if the sensor is reading it that hot because now it sits so much closer to the engine. Also I think the butterfly valve is opening up near redline causing the car to lose some pressure top end

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120 IAT really isn't super high, especially since its summer in CA i am sure it's not that much higher than ambient. but it's not to say once stressing the system more that those temps wont go up way higher.

You can always hook it up just for comparison purposes. The tune once made safe without intercooler should be safe with the intercooler since boost will drop. I would try to keep the external conditions as similar as possible. like testing it same day back to back test the intercooler 2nd see how much it drops boost and drops temps to see if its worth it.

I still think a water to air setup would be ideal for this application for a total net gain in just about any scenario.
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Old 08-07-2020, 12:38 PM   #10896
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120 IAT really isn't super high, especially since its summer in CA i am sure it's not that much higher than ambient. but it's not to say once stressing the system more that those temps wont go up way higher.



You can always hook it up just for comparison purposes. The tune once made safe without intercooler should be safe with the intercooler since boost will drop. I would try to keep the external conditions as similar as possible. like testing it same day back to back test the intercooler 2nd see how much it drops boost and drops temps to see if its worth it.



I still think a water to air setup would be ideal for this application for a total net gain in just about any scenario.
I honestly think though that the MAF sensor is just getting hot. Because sine my new setup the NA filter is no longer protected by the hot engine bay temps, and the sensor sits closer to the engine. I think what's happening is the sensor itself is getting hot. Then when I hit boost the temps don't go down because the sensor is so hot it's not cooling down fast enough to read the new temps. As my car is set up currently. Boost temps should be cooler since the filter for the turbos sits inside the bumper kinda like the perrin filter so it should be sucking in colder ambient air compared to the filter sitting inside the engine. I need to find a way to keep the intake pipes cooler. Any ideas?

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Old 08-07-2020, 02:30 PM   #10897
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@BlOody_BoOger
Oh yeah 120-140 is pretty normal for IATs drawing air from inside engine bay, and engine temps heat soaking MAF being so close. I thought you meant IAT was 120 when WOT under boost. If it’s steadily consistently dropping under boost when it shifts to pulling from the bumper filter that’s a good sign; and good indicator you don’t need an intercooler. I’d be more concerned if it went up or didn’t change. I think your setup is probably fine.

You can ask your tuner, but i don’t think the tune makes any major adjustments based on IAT temps it’s more just for seeing what they are as cooler air is denser air for more potential power. So it doesn’t really matter too much what they are cruising around just at WOT when max performance matters.

You can gold heat wrap all the intake pipes in the engine bay leading up to throttle body. Proven to help at least a little.

A more extreme measure would be water meth injection. I’ve been running that 1.5yrs no problems. Even a tiny 75-100cc nozzle of 100% water just for cooling purposes would be have no risk since your not increasing octane. Just add lots of cooling. Or run 150-200cc nozzle 50/50 mix to get cooling and rough equivalent to E45 for octane boost/power gain.
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Old 08-07-2020, 03:17 PM   #10898
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@BlOody_BoOger
Oh yeah 120-140 is pretty normal for IATs drawing air from inside engine bay, and engine temps heat soaking MAF being so close. I thought you meant IAT was 120 when WOT under boost. If it’s steadily consistently dropping under boost when it shifts to pulling from the bumper filter that’s a good sign; and good indicator you don’t need an intercooler. I’d be more concerned if it went up or didn’t change. I think your setup is probably fine.

You can ask your tuner, but i don’t think the tune makes any major adjustments based on IAT temps it’s more just for seeing what they are as cooler air is denser air for more potential power. So it doesn’t really matter too much what they are cruising around just at WOT when max performance matters.

You can gold heat wrap all the intake pipes in the engine bay leading up to throttle body. Proven to help at least a little.

A more extreme measure would be water meth injection. I’ve been running that 1.5yrs no problems. Even a tiny 75-100cc nozzle of 100% water just for cooling purposes would be have no risk since your not increasing octane. Just add lots of cooling. Or run 150-200cc nozzle 50/50 mix to get cooling and rough equivalent to E45 for octane boost/power gain.
This clears everything up for me thanks. Lol you don't know how many times I spent researching this and couldn't really find answers every article or website kept saying that 10-15 degrees above ambient is what you want. But I'm over here like 120 when it's 90 outside. But now that you say 120 is normal im good. Yea I'mma try that heat wrapping all the pipes and some how make a heat shield out of some flat sheet metal to cover the in bay filter

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Old 08-08-2020, 01:12 PM   #10899
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Looking forward to some pulls and videos

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Old 08-08-2020, 01:25 PM   #10900
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So after speaking to my tuner he said that 120 temps are still safe. He said that where he lives in Australia 120 temps is pretty normal and hes not boosted so if my temps are 120 when driving normally and don't really change underboost I should be fine. The car might pull some timing but he thinks the intercooler is really not needed. I wonder what kind of charge temps other conventional FI systems are producing

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Old 08-08-2020, 01:39 PM   #10901
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I can give you some numbers with my setup if you want. Pretty warm in SOCAL ATM. Boosted with an liquid IC and flex fuel.

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Old 08-08-2020, 01:43 PM   #10902
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I can give you some numbers with my setup if you want. Pretty warm in SOCAL ATM. Boosted with an liquid IC and flex fuel.

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What are you running

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Old 08-08-2020, 01:45 PM   #10903
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What are you running

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Sprintex 210+69nm pulley.

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Old 08-08-2020, 01:45 PM   #10904
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Sprintex 210+69nm pulley.

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Oh nice how much boost you pushing, lol imagine sticking a phantom on with your srpintex. Damn the low end tq you'd make.

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Old 08-08-2020, 01:46 PM   #10905
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Oh nice how much boost you pushing

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11-11.5

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Old 08-08-2020, 02:14 PM   #10906
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My mechanical boost gauge shows a solid 12.5psi peak with the 69mm pulley. And my WMI shows the same. Although they are T’d off the same point on the map plate so should show the same.

But problem with IAT reading with a PD charger (like sprintex) is unless you relocate the IAT to post blower the MAF is pre blower, so we don’t know our real IAT especially when boosted, but It should be a similar comparison reading though comparing off boost/cruising. Which mine is always +/- 5F from ambient drawing from behind bumper.

You really need to hit up people with centrifugal chargers and ask them their IAT.

But yeah 120f isn’t that bad for cruising since you’re pulling from engine bay and it’s probably heat soaking the MAF housing plate, and i have a feeling your air once pulling from behind bumper even after blower/ when boosted is cooler than the air pulling from engine bay, but the MAF housing and MAF are probably heatsoaked and your boosted pull isn’t long enough to cool it down to get a more accurate lower reading. If you really want to add an intercooler the small water to air with only a .1-.2psi drop would be plenty, the bigger air to air probably do more harm than good with all the pressure drop.
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