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Old 12-28-2020, 02:47 PM   #351
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https://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/3927

Middle of this has a summary of the different proposals for subsidies based on income % above FPL and the fiscal impact.

Here's a summary of last year's Covered CA subsidies and what types of families pay what:

https://health-access.org/wp-content...et_6.24.19.pdf
Interesting report, was the proposal passed? If so, then state subsidies are funded by the penalty revenue?? I feel like thatís a rather shortsighted solution if the goal is to encourage the 3.5m uninsured to buy from the state exchange. I believe that was a big question by the legislature.

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Again, all this is if you get your insurance via Covered CA. If you have something via your employer you won't be offered the Covered CA option, I had to fight them for coverage at the beginning of 2019 when they tried to deny me due to me terminating my previous employment in late 2018.
I was just using it at a comparison to see how it compares state to state.

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As for universal healthcare, the first few years will be universal hatred towards it. A good example is Taiwan... they put it together during the a lame duck period in the presidency of the first elected president in 1995, then endured several years where the population hated it. Now it's a system that is not perfect but has given a lot of benefit to the public, and also one of the most effective at combating COVID-19 so far. My mom (70+) can easily walk around any part of Taiwan with zero fear of catching COVID-19, and two weeks ago they had the first local transmission of COVID-19 in 8+ months. Can't say that about the rest of the world, let alone the US...

But as is the case with most public policy implementations, the benefits are not seen for years (or even decades). It's just a matter of whether the public has the patience to see it out, and unfortunately that will never happen in the US.
That may be but the amount of variables that factor in to the implementation of significant universal policies like that make the outcome ultimately unpredictable.
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Old 12-31-2020, 11:28 PM   #352
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I see that Massachusetts will also ban sale of gasoline powered cars by 2035 and the article mentions that New Jersey has the same plan. Fortunately it only applies to new vehicles.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news...4x2?li=BBnb4R5
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Old 01-01-2021, 12:18 AM   #353
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It's simple: Everybody making money pays in, everybody in the country is covered. Even right-wing sponsored studies have shown this to be cost-effective. I wouldn't even mind paying *more* to ensure that those less fortunate than myself have healthcare. And also that if anything happens to me such that I lose my job that *I* still have healthcare. M4A is the way to go.
Can we try fixing our borders and getting rid of the millions of illegal aliens before we attempt M4A?
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Old 01-01-2021, 01:22 AM   #354
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Can we try fixing our borders and getting rid of the millions of illegal aliens before we attempt M4A?
that depends. do you like blueberries?
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronav...s-unharvested/
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Old 01-01-2021, 01:32 AM   #355
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that depends. do you like blueberries?
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronav...s-unharvested/
Visa holders arenít illegal immigrants though.

That farmers gonna have bigger problems because 60% of his sales are restaurants.
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Old 01-01-2021, 01:41 AM   #356
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Visa holders arenít illegal immigrants though.

That farmers gonna have bigger problems because 60% of his sales are restaurants.
you haven't talked to many famers.

the one's i know learned 20 years ago to not dig too deeply into any info the pickers give unless it's flat out wrong. it's quite 'normal' for many pickers to have 3-4 different social security numbers, with different names.

it's funny at first that a guy was jose last year, and juan this year, but gets sad really fast when the realization kicks in how abysmal our immigrant system is.

but no one else will pick produce...
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Old 01-01-2021, 02:56 AM   #357
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I see that Massachusetts will also ban the sale of new gasoline powered cars by 2035 and the article mentions that New Jersey has the same plan. Fortunately it only applies to new vehicles.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news...4x2?li=BBnb4R5
I fixed it.
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Old 01-01-2021, 02:58 AM   #358
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Can we try fixing our borders and getting rid of the millions of illegal aliens before we attempt M4A?
Why?
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Old 01-01-2021, 09:48 AM   #359
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Why?
Why not?
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Old 01-01-2021, 09:53 AM   #360
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you haven't talked to many famers.

the one's i know learned 20 years ago to not dig too deeply into any info the pickers give unless it's flat out wrong. it's quite 'normal' for many pickers to have 3-4 different social security numbers, with different names.

it's funny at first that a guy was jose last year, and juan this year, but gets sad really fast when the realization kicks in how abysmal our immigrant system is.

but no one else will pick produce...
I know a lot of farmers but I generally donít ask them ab the workersí citizenship status.

Donít you think itís a problem that there are those with 3-4 SSNs? Shouldnít we do something ab it?

Iím not arguing for booting people out who are just trying to make a living. Im arguing that if people are wanting to roll out a system that will give citizens free healthcare, donít you think we should have an effective immigration policies first. I do.
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Old 01-01-2021, 12:39 PM   #361
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Old 01-01-2021, 01:22 PM   #362
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I know a lot of farmers but I generally donít ask them ab the workersí citizenship status.

Donít you think itís a problem that there are those with 3-4 SSNs? Shouldnít we do something ab it?

Iím not arguing for booting people out who are just trying to make a living. Im arguing that if people are wanting to roll out a system that will give citizens free healthcare, donít you think we should have an effective immigration policies first. I do.
i can't find it any more, but there was an article 3-4 years ago, back when a lot of this immigration stuff was a really hot button topic about a farmer in a state that started enforcing all of the immigration stuff. it talked about how he was posting ad's everywhere, offering up to $16/hr to pick his produce(minimum wage at the time was something like $5-7/hr), but he couldn't get anyone but illegals to do it, and with the new enforcement at the time, he was looking at half to 3/4's of his crop going bad because no one would do the work.

at the time, i had a big conversation with a few other people about how we as americans are shifting our society away from hand-on jobs(a very critical part of the societal shift from a manufacturing society to a service society), where everyone wants to become a middle manager or better(in my research, this began during the Reagan administration, after his people came to the conclusion that we were falling behind china in education, and he started pushing for college education to what it's become today). it leaves a vacuum in the lower end of the workforce, that historically allows others in much worse positions to pull themselves up.

but because our immigration system has become a legal rats nest of red tape and bureaucracy that has made it almost impossible for anyone to get through the system without first having money to begin with(which they then typically shoot for the higher-paid positions, naturally), it only serves to further the manufacturing/hands-on gap, as less and less people are willing or able to step into those roles.

it's an interesting conversation, that eventually ends with "everything in moderation", and our current system weighs too heavily to the collegiate side to offer any alternative.


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"Fix" racists first.
it's a historic "Us vs. Them." it will never be fixed. the divide will only grow larger as we all create and maintain deeper individual beliefs.
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Old 01-01-2021, 01:34 PM   #363
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it's a historic "Us vs. Them." it will never be fixed. the divide will only grow larger as we all create and maintain deeper individual beliefs.
"Them" are all fake now and are no longer human. Thanks.

Jim Crow continues unabated.
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Old 01-01-2021, 02:03 PM   #364
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Why not?
Because the two issues aren’t dependent. It is like saying shouldn’t we have an effective immigration policy before we decriminalize marijuana?

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I know a lot of farmers but I generally don’t ask them ab the workers’ citizenship status.

Don’t you think it’s a problem that there are those with 3-4 SSNs? Shouldn’t we do something ab it?

I’m not arguing for booting people out who are just trying to make a living. Im arguing that if people are wanting to roll out a system that will give citizens free healthcare, don’t you think we should have an effective immigration policies first. I do.
The implications from this statement...

Quote:
Can we try fixing our borders and getting rid of the millions of illegal aliens before we attempt M4A?
...is that we will pay for immigrants to use our healthcare. They already do that. Nothing is preventing anyone from using our most expensive services now: emergency services. I can’t go to Germany and schedule a free knee replacement surgery just because they have M4A.

...is that we will be burdened with more expenses. This has already been factored into the cost of M4A, which has been shown by studies and bipartisan research groups to be cheaper than our current system, saving us trillions.

Quote:
Even the Mercatus Center, a right-wing think tank, recently found about $2 trillion in net savings over 10 years from a single-payer Medicare for All system.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill...es-money%3famp

The whole line of reasoning is ignorant or it borders on racism and xenophobia. This country is built on immigrants. These people who are coming from all over the world are often harder working and are less likely to be involved in criminal activity than the average citizen. They contribute to the economy more than they take from social services. They pay taxes more often than they don’t, adding money to social security and other programs they will never get to use. If there were less obstacles then I’m sure even more would pay taxes. This might be why @bcj said to fix racists first.

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IRS estimates that about 6 million unauthorized immigrants file individual income tax returns each year. Research reviewed by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office indicates that between 50 percent and 75 percent of unauthorized immigrants pay federal, state, and local taxes. Illegal immigrants are estimated to pay in about $7 billion per year into Social Security. In addition, they spend billions of dollars per year, which supports the US economy and helps to create new jobs. The Texas State Comptroller reported in 2006 that the 1.4 million unauthorized immigrants in Texas added almost $18 billion to the gross state product, and contributed $1.58 billion in state revenue, while costing the state about $1.16 billion in services used.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Econ...dgetary_impact

Another example from the article:

Quote:
Moreover, studies have also shown that not providing illegal immigrants with a decent healthcare might actually cost the country in the long-run rather than save expenses. In 2000, researchers compared the perinatal outcomes and costs of illegal women with and without prenatal care and inferred the impact of denial of prenatal benefits to illegal immigrants in California. Nearly 10% of illegal women had no prenatal care. These women were nearly 4 times as likely to be delivered of low birth weight infants and more than 7 times as likely to be delivered of premature infants as were illegal women who had prenatal care. For every dollar cut from prenatal care, an increase of $3.33 in the cost of postnatal care and $4.63 in incremental long-term cost were expected. Elimination of publicly funded prenatal care for illegal women could save the state $58 million in direct prenatal care costs but could cost taxpayers as much as $194 million more in postnatal care, resulting in a net cost of $136 million initially and $211 million in long-term costs. Although their parents are illegal immigrants, these children are actually U.S citizens.
The reality is that the majority of illegal immigrants come here legally and simply overstay their visas. They come on work visas, student visas and family/tourist visas. The border isn’t even our biggest source of illegal immigration, yet it is what people chiefly focus on.

https://www.npr.org/2019/01/10/68366...e-data-tell-us
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