follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Speed By Design
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Forced Induction

Forced Induction Turbo, Supercharger, Methanol, Nitrous


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-31-2020, 01:28 PM   #1
86click
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Drives: 2015 Scion FR-S
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 6
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
DELETE THREAD!

DELETE THREAD!

Last edited by 86click; 02-22-2020 at 01:43 AM. Reason: DELETE THREAD!
86click is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2020, 01:36 PM   #2
Goingnowherefast
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Drives: AP2 S2000, 91 Miata 1.8L Rotrex 5MT
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 286
Thanks: 125
Thanked 169 Times in 112 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 86click View Post
Hey yíall. I bought my car couple of months ago and Iím in love with it but also I donít wanna be left behind when Iím with my friends going for cruises or what not. Yeah I got into this car knowing itís gonna be slow but IK I can get it fast. Money is not the problem. I donít daily it. Iím. A truck driver and 23 years old so itís sitting at home. Only get it drive it on the weekends every couple weeks but I wanna have fun with it.

So I wanna build this car to be Fast. DONT SAY (you got the wrong car then) money isnít a problem. I donít really donít wanna engine swap. Feel like itís a huge headache but there is always a possibility.

So my question is.
ēWhat can I do to the car to get 300-350whp?
ēTurbo or Super charger with e85?
ēDo I need rebuild the engine with internal upgrades before going FI?
ēWhat parts I should get?
Fuel injectors, fuel pump, rebuilt transmission, Ect.

Thanks. Let me know what yíall got in mind.
You bought the wrong car.

No but honestly, that power level is accessible with both supercharging or turbocharging. But first, do you need it to be reliable at the track? Because that single factor, will nearly double the price of any forced induction setup. If not, it's much easier since a street car see's almost none of the abuse a track car will.
__________________
2017 Subaru BRZ w/ PP - Delicious Tuning S2+ Flex Fuel/Tomei UEL/HKS Single/RCE Tarmac II's 9K/9K - (SCCA TT T4)
Goingnowherefast is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2020, 01:46 PM   #3
86click
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Drives: 2015 Scion FR-S
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 6
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast View Post
You bought the wrong car.

No but honestly, that power level is accessible with both supercharging or turbocharging. But first, do you need it to be reliable at the track? Because that single factor, will nearly double the price of any forced induction setup. If not, it's much easier since a street car see's almost none of the abuse a track car will.
Weekend fun with the boys. We got 370z, m3ís, audi s4ís so just enough to keep up. Not talkin about beating them at a race lol
86click is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2020, 01:49 PM   #4
YamahaR86
JDM Vaping Stance Nation
 
YamahaR86's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Drives: 2013 White
Location: FL
Posts: 674
Thanks: 582
Thanked 310 Times in 200 Posts
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
How much money ya got?
__________________
Clueless
YamahaR86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2020, 01:56 PM   #5
86click
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Drives: 2015 Scion FR-S
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 6
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by YamahaR86 View Post
How much money ya got?
Willing to spend 15k on the car
86click is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2020, 02:04 PM   #6
Clutch Dog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Drives: 2017 BRZ PP , 2005 Saab 97X
Location: CA
Posts: 1,052
Thanks: 752
Thanked 719 Times in 405 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 86click View Post
Hey y’all. I bought my car couple of months ago and I’m in love with it but also I don’t wanna be left behind when I’m with my friends going for cruises or what not. Yeah I got into this car knowing it’s gonna be slow but IK I can get it fast. Money is not the problem. I don’t daily it. I’m. A truck driver and 23 years old so it’s sitting at home. Only get it drive it on the weekends every couple weeks but I wanna have fun with it.

So I wanna build this car to be Fast. DONT SAY (you got the wrong car then) money isn’t a problem. I don’t really don’t wanna engine swap. Feel like it’s a huge headache but there is always a possibility.

So my question is.
•What can I do to the car to get 300-350whp?
•Turbo or Super charger with e85?
•Do I need rebuild the engine with internal upgrades before going FI?
•What parts I should get?
Fuel injectors, fuel pump, rebuilt transmission, Ect.

Thanks. Let me know what y’all got in mind.

the issue is the stock Bottom end of the car was never meant for boost, so they get really finicky real quick

if money truely isnt an issue id be looking at tearing out the engine, and upgrading the pistons with a lower compression piston ( something like (9:1) and then upgrading the rods to something thatll hold power

after you do that, throw a turbo on the car, and then the next weakest link will be oiling. There's talk about upgrading the oil pump to something with higher pressure, but really we need something to lower cavitation

a better pickup would help, and dont forget an oil cooler

after you get that sorted youd probably need to swap out the injectors and fuel pump for more power. and there are 8 injectors on this car remember.

then the next weakest link becomes the differential. its just a small subaru 7 inch unit. never meant to take a whole bunch of power. the best idea would be a mustang IRS rear end from the newer 2016+ as its an 8.8 ring gear and can take beef'

unless you can make a Nisan R200 or R230 diff fit, those are common, after you get that sorted the next weakest link would be the transmission
I personally like the CDoo9 nissan 6 speed, but you can make a bmw ZF work, or maybe a tko500 if money isnt a problem

now just about the only thing that isnt modified is the interior.

you have to love the car an aweful lot to invest that sort of time and money, but if its up your creek. that's where Id start


MA Performance engine

Killer B Fury Turbo Kit

I personally recommend running nothing bigger than garrett sized GT3071RS, youll need the airflow to spool anything bigger.

and
Stage 2 Built heads

thats not including an aftermarket ECU, personally I wouldnt run anything less than a Link harness, though Motec would be ideal if money isnt an issue

Motec plug and play BRZ

Throw in things like an upgraded drive shaft, clutch, brakes and wheels and tires, maybe suspension if you get too wallowy with the power on stock suspension. and lets not forget a bigger radiator and intercooler upgrades. Dyno time, custom tuner..
just doing rough math, youd be about 20k into this car to dyno 350 whp


like i said you have to love this car powerful hard to put in that much effort and money
Clutch Dog is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Clutch Dog For This Useful Post:
JoeC (01-31-2020)
Old 01-31-2020, 02:06 PM   #7
jstn
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: '15 Vortech Supercharged
Location: United States
Posts: 105
Thanks: 7
Thanked 34 Times in 19 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 86click View Post
ēWhat can I do to the car to get 300-350whp?
ēTurbo or Super charger with e85?
ēDo I need rebuild the engine with internal upgrades before going FI?
ēWhat parts I should get?
Fuel injectors, fuel pump, rebuilt transmission, Ect.
Turbo or supercharger is mostly personal preference, either one is capable of getting you to that number. I think a turbo is going to be a lot easier to make big HP numbers with, but a supercharger will be simpler and cheaper (and personally I like the way they drive better than most turbo cars).

Stock internals are generally fine up to 300-350ish. If you want to go any further than that it's going to take some beefing up. Trans will be ok up to about 300ft lb of torque at which point you need to start worrying about grenading fourth gear.

Dual oil catch cans and upgraded radiator should be considered necessary. Stock fueling system will get you to around 300whp but I think beyond that you will need to worry about pump and injectors.
jstn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2020, 02:10 PM   #8
86click
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Drives: 2015 Scion FR-S
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 6
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clutch Dog View Post
the issue is the stock Bottom end of the car was never meant for boost, so they get really finicky real quick

if money truely isnt an issue id be looking at tearing out the engine, and upgrading the pistons with a lower compression piston ( something like (9:1) and then upgrading the rods to something thatll hold power

after you do that, throw a turbo on the car, and then the next weakest link will be oiling. There's talk about upgrading the oil pump to something with higher pressure, but really we need something to lower cavitation

a better pickup would help, and dont forget an oil cooler

after you get that sorted youd probably need to swap out the injectors and fuel pump for more power. and there are 8 injectors on this car remember.

then the next weakest link becomes the differential. its just a small subaru 7 inch unit. never meant to take a whole bunch of power. the best idea would be a mustang IRS rear end from the newer 2016+ as its an 8.8 ring gear and can take beef'

unless you can make a Nisan R200 or R230 diff fit, those are common, after you get that sorted the next weakest link would be the transmission
I personally like the CDoo9 nissan 6 speed, but you can make a bmw ZF work, or maybe a tko500 if money isnt a problem

now just about the only thing that isnt modified is the interior.

you have to love the car an aweful lot to invest that sort of time and money, but if its up your creek. that's where Id start


MA Performance engine

Killer B Fury Turbo Kit

I personally recommend running nothing bigger than garrett sized GT3071RS, youll need the airflow to spool anything bigger.

and
Stage 2 Built heads

thats not including an aftermarket ECU, personally I wouldnt run anything less than a Link harness, though Motec would be ideal if money isnt an issue

Motec plug and play BRZ

Throw in things like an upgraded drive shaft, clutch, brakes and wheels and tires, maybe suspension if you get too wallowy with the power on stock suspension. and lets not forget a bigger radiator and intercooler upgrades. Dyno time, custom tuner..
just doing rough math, youd be about 20k into this car to dyno 350 whp


like i said you have to love this car powerful hard to put in that much effort and money
I appreciate you took your time say all that. I love the way this car looks so Iím down to doing all that. But also Iím not gonna throw everything at it at the same time. Over time I wanna make this car fast and enjoyable. So thank you
86click is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2020, 02:11 PM   #9
YamahaR86
JDM Vaping Stance Nation
 
YamahaR86's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Drives: 2013 White
Location: FL
Posts: 674
Thanks: 582
Thanked 310 Times in 200 Posts
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Few people I spoke to say the transmission will go (4th gear) before the rods will.


Are you automatic or manual?


I only have experience with turbo.

Need to upgrade clutch first thing, then other parts while you're in there. Forged Clutch Fork, Pivot, etc.

Catch cans, oil cooler, turbo kit, EcuTek or OFT, Dyno Time/Tuning. EBC or MBC.

Stock can handle 300-350 hp, but with the rest of the money I'd go with fuel pump, injectors, forged rods, pistons, springs. Then look into transmissions.
__________________
Clueless
YamahaR86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2020, 02:13 PM   #10
Clutch Dog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Drives: 2017 BRZ PP , 2005 Saab 97X
Location: CA
Posts: 1,052
Thanks: 752
Thanked 719 Times in 405 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by YamahaR86 View Post
Few people I spoke to say the transmission will go (4th gear) before the rods will.
its highly dependant on how the trans is used. its an Aisin Design and while 4th is the first thing for the trans to break, there are other things on the car that would break under normal conditions.

Hell when the trans is cold every gear shift feels like grinding gears. I havent had such a grindy gear since the rx8/s2000

also which use an aisin trans for a base.
Clutch Dog is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Clutch Dog For This Useful Post:
YamahaR86 (01-31-2020)
Old 01-31-2020, 02:16 PM   #11
Clutch Dog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Drives: 2017 BRZ PP , 2005 Saab 97X
Location: CA
Posts: 1,052
Thanks: 752
Thanked 719 Times in 405 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
personally I want to swap a renesis into the brz. id cheap out by getting a S2 Rx8 manual and swapping the transmission and engine together as a unit, then calculating BTU capacity and maybe upgrading the cooling system

then throwin on huge series oil coolers from the RX8 with new setrab coolers, and using the OE Rx8 wiring harness to run the engine. but its a lateral move for something that doesnt exactly dyno more hp ( it will be not alot) but for me it will change the driving characteristics of it


and in the ideal world with money not being an issue id make this

TRD Griffon
Clutch Dog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2020, 02:18 PM   #12
86TOYO2k17
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: 2017 toyota 86
Location: PNW
Posts: 1,801
Thanks: 206
Thanked 929 Times in 625 Posts
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
If money isn't an option hit up pure automotive and send them your car for a turn key swap. Then you can reliably make all the power.

E85 if you have access to it is highly recommended regardless of other choices you decide. Just need a flex fuel kit and corresponding tune. and you can reliably make a lot more power and manage heat much better.

The stock 2017+ FA is still fairly reliable up to 225wtq/300whp. More can be done but reliability starts to decrease. I wouldn't go beyond 250wtq/335whp if you want it to last a reasonable amount of time to be able to even enjoy. Depending on how often you drive / how hard you drive having the engine last say 30k miles may be a lot to you or may not be a lot.

a stage 2 shortblock should be able to handle 350whp no problem (with as much reliability as a built engines can be)

people have had mixed experiences with stock MT how you drive is a huge factor especially on clutch and synchros. stock MT is rated at 184 ft lbs, but people report gears shearing around 240wtq, stock clutch around 200-220wtq. CD009 trans swap isn't too difficult to swap, but for your goals MT with a clutch may be fine.

as to how to make the power, and if money isn't an issue, a well setup turbo kit will be much better then a SC for many reasons, but a SC kit to hit up to about 320whp may be a little cheaper and simpler to setup especially if you plan on doing it yourself.

Also the cost and complexity dramatically increases between 300whp or 350whp. going to 350whp you may need trans, driveshaft, axles, shortblock, wheels/tires to put power down etc... whereas 300whp pretty much can slap on most FI kits and FF/E85 tune and good to go, maybe add an oil cooler for really spirited driving, more cooling will be needed if tracking though.

more specific use, budget, specific goals can narrow things down more.
86TOYO2k17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2020, 02:22 PM   #13
Clutch Dog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Drives: 2017 BRZ PP , 2005 Saab 97X
Location: CA
Posts: 1,052
Thanks: 752
Thanked 719 Times in 405 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17 View Post
If money isn't an option hit up pure automotive and send them your car for a turn key swap. Then you can reliably make all the power.

E85 if you have access to it is highly recommended regardless of other choices you decide. Just need a flex fuel kit and corresponding tune. and you can reliably make a lot more power and manage heat much better.

The stock 2017+ FA is still fairly reliable up to 225wtq/300whp. More can be done but reliability starts to decrease. I wouldn't go beyond 250wtq/335whp if you want it to last a reasonable amount of time to be able to even enjoy. Depending on how often you drive / how hard you drive having the engine last say 30k miles may be a lot to you or may not be a lot.

a stage 2 shortblock should be able to handle 350whp no problem (with as much reliability as a built engines can be)

people have had mixed experiences with stock MT how you drive is a huge factor especially on clutch and synchros. stock MT is rated at 184 ft lbs, but people report gears shearing around 240wtq, stock clutch around 200-220wtq. CD009 trans swap isn't too difficult to swap, but for your goals MT with a clutch may be fine.

as to how to make the power, and if money isn't an issue, a well setup turbo kit will be much better then a SC for many reasons, but a SC kit to hit up to about 320whp may be a little cheaper and simpler to setup especially if you plan on doing it yourself.

Also the cost and complexity dramatically increases between 300whp or 350whp. going to 350whp you may need trans, driveshaft, axles, shortblock, wheels/tires to put power down etc... whereas 300whp pretty much can slap on most FI kits and FF/E85 tune and good to go, maybe add an oil cooler for really spirited driving, more cooling will be needed if tracking though.

more specific use, budget, specific goals can narrow things down more.
BTW this is mostly correct


the parts list i threw together is a completely reliable. clutch drop and rip everyday all day 1 hour lap sessions, no worries over built project

ive seen supercharged bolt on E85 86's dyno 300 whp and with 4.3 gears makes for a really fun time. but admittedly its just a matter of what breaks at that power level.

the real sweet spot as mentioned is about 240-260 whp. the car would do that nearly all day.
Clutch Dog is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Clutch Dog For This Useful Post:
86TOYO2k17 (01-31-2020)
Old 01-31-2020, 02:26 PM   #14
DandoX
Senior gif poster
 
DandoX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Drives: 2013 Asphalt FRS
Location: Ca, SoCal
Posts: 925
Thanks: 585
Thanked 741 Times in 384 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
@Payload mentioned you could totally get 300hp with just a tune


DandoX is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Harrop|Michelin Slicks|Bilstein|Os Giken|SPL|Voltex|InGs - The 350whp griffon vgarcin Member's Car Journals 51 11-11-2019 07:06 AM
350whp Q2 Forced Induction 11 09-09-2017 03:34 AM
Forced Induction Kits Putting Out Around 300-350Whp SalM Forced Induction 13 11-05-2012 03:07 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.