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Old 07-31-2020, 11:35 AM   #407
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Hey guys, Im going thru some serious heat issues with my LS3 swaped 86. In mediterrainian heat I strugeled to stay below 115°C water temp when driving stop&go and AC on. Also uphill racing in 35°C is an issue. At 25°C temps are fairly OK (meaning up to 110°C) if I push the car moderately hard and avoid speed below 50kmh.

I'm using the skunk2 ultra (also with interna oil cooler). Im for sure going to upgrade to Spal Fans and take out the crappy Mishimotos. But I feel this is not the full Story.

So are there any before/after comparrisons for the water temps with the Jackson Racing Rad? Im concerned that high heat load due to the internal oil cooler is an issue with the LS3. So I would like to know if anyone noticed raised water temps in consequence of the lower oil temps with the Jackson rad.

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Old 08-01-2020, 04:38 PM   #408
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I would recommend a separate unit for oil and a bigger core for water. Do you have hood vents?

I feel with my car in sig can get a bit warm on the water side due to increased heat of the engine oil and heat from the FI.

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Old 08-02-2020, 03:19 PM   #409
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Hood vents are no option. Despite I dont realy like the optic and as well there are very limited options here in Germany due to legal restrictions concerning crash safety it is also technical impossible. Die to the LS swap there is zero space for hood vents in the Front section of the hood. Only rear section would be possible, but in matters of aerodynamics this is a Region of high pressure. So no good choice for a vent which is meant to get air out. Therefore I will go with a vent at the fender trims. There is a low pressure Region in Simulations I saw and I confirmed this with pratical Tests.

So back to the rad. Im interessted in before/after numbers for water temp. A conventional air to oil cooler would be possible of course, but increases Stack size and also needs to be placed in front af the condenser. So overall I fear that this might cause critical oil temps or, if oil is cooled good due to "Pole Position" in the Stack nö advantage for the water temps.

The skunk2 Rad is size wise the maximum what can be fitted. It is arround 75mm thick. But I also fear that this "bigger is better" concept is part of the issue. Also the skunk2 has way less rows over the same hight compared to some other rads. I was assuming that it compensates this due to the thickness and the high cooling water capacity. But realtiy Shows that I might be wrong.

In the end the question comes down to one core point: Can the Jackson rad, while beeing smaler in size, dump more heat energy at the same airflow over the very big skunk2.
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Old 08-02-2020, 04:04 PM   #410
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Rad heat capacity depends on few things. Heat exchange area and airflow going over it.
Former commonly is increased by thicker rads or by denser fins. Unfortunately dense fins (stacked rads too) may decrease a lot airflow going through with fans lacking pressure (read - quieter/less powerful) due more resistance, so dense-finned and/or stacked are less effective then non-stacked and bigger not as dense finned (with same fans). There is also issue of second rad in stack cooling with prewarmed by first air. If there is limit how big or stacked rads you can staff in due clearance, i'd probably look into more powerful fans. They should increase cooling of whichever rads they blow through, and in automotive area high operating noise under bonnet is less of an issue. Or do both, denser finned rads + more powerful fans.
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Old 08-02-2020, 04:25 PM   #411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRS View Post
Hood vents are no option. Despite I dont realy like the optic and as well there are very limited options here in Germany due to legal restrictions concerning crash safety it is also technical impossible. Die to the LS swap there is zero space for hood vents in the Front section of the hood. Only rear section would be possible, but in matters of aerodynamics this is a Region of high pressure. So no good choice for a vent which is meant to get air out. Therefore I will go with a vent at the fender trims. There is a low pressure Region in Simulations I saw and I confirmed this with pratical Tests.

So back to the rad. Im interessted in before/after numbers for water temp. A conventional air to oil cooler would be possible of course, but increases Stack size and also needs to be placed in front af the condenser. So overall I fear that this might cause critical oil temps or, if oil is cooled good due to "Pole Position" in the Stack nö advantage for the water temps.

The skunk2 Rad is size wise the maximum what can be fitted. It is arround 75mm thick. But I also fear that this "bigger is better" concept is part of the issue. Also the skunk2 has way less rows over the same hight compared to some other rads. I was assuming that it compensates this due to the thickness and the high cooling water capacity. But realtiy Shows that I might be wrong.

In the end the question comes down to one core point: Can the Jackson rad, while beeing smaler in size, dump more heat energy at the same airflow over the very big skunk2.
I would reach out to Jackson. There are pretty honest and provide excellent customer service. Worth a shot

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Old 08-03-2020, 10:33 AM   #412
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I would reach out to Jackson. There are pretty honest and provide excellent customer service. Worth a shot

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I gave this a try. Mail is sent. Lets see what they think. ��

Last edited by TRS; 08-05-2020 at 01:45 PM.
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Old 09-01-2020, 04:37 PM   #413
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Just got my kit and will be installing when I get a new set of clips and bumper reinforcement plates.


For those who have been running this long term NA, are you still using 0w-20 and is it still providing adequate oil pressures when pushing hard enough to drive temps up?


For FI, are you guys still on 0w-20 or did you move up to 0w-30 or 5w-30?
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Old 09-01-2020, 04:49 PM   #414
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Originally Posted by Jo0 View Post
Just got my kit and will be installing when I get a new set of clips and bumper reinforcement plates.


For those who have been running this long term NA, are you still using 0w-20 and is it still providing adequate oil pressures when pushing hard enough to drive temps up?


For FI, are you guys still on 0w-20 or did you move up to 0w-30 or 5w-30?
5w-30

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Old 09-04-2020, 03:32 PM   #415
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I'm considering getting the Mishimoto Radiator and Oil Cooler separately or this combo unit. But I want to get the Edelbrock Supercharger next year, and I'm not super excited about the idea of customizing where the oil cooler is.



What I've gathered from reading the whole thread is:

* The stock fans are excellent and don't need to be replaced
* The weight of oil for NorCal might become a factor since it can get cold here.



The JR Combo Unit

* is larger and cools the coolant much more effectively so there's no worry about overheating the coolant from the additional oil heat

* Cools the oil very effectively, but keeps the oil cooler longer at startup, requiring more warm-up time before hard driving.
* fits perfectly with the Edelbrock Supercharger
* Has some hard bends in the tubing that require care during installation



A separate performance radiator and oil cooler could be

* better at getting the oil up to temp faster
* potentially worse at cooling the oil in certain situations where there is low airflow (seems rare but, hot day bumper to bumper traffic?)

* potentially less stable temps than the combo as the combo triggers the fans to keep temps stable

* better at cooling the coolant, using fans less often

* e85 might exacerbate temp differences as the coolant will stay cooler longer as I believe e85 engines just run cooler in general. So the coolant won't trigger the fans to suck air over the oil cooler as soon?

* somewhat better in race applications if you want the lowest temps and you are always going high speed with high airflow over the oil cooler
* Incompatible with the mounting locations for most FI intercooler mounting locations requiring custom setup




Which leads me to believe:



1. If I'm going to stick with NA, then just getting an oil cooler is probably sufficient for all uses including track days, even though the stock radiator could use replacing as well.

2. Getting the separate radiator and oil cooler would be the best combo for maximum efficiency on the track.

3. If I'm going to upgrade to having the Supercharger later, I should probably get the Combo unit, as whatever minor efficiency gains at track speed airflow won't overcome the irritation of a custom mounting point for the oil cooler. And daily driving in traffic will be more stable temps.

4. The added warmup time won't be an issue for me in NorCal 300+ days of the year.





The one question I have for track and autocross days is, how do I get the oil up to temp before doing a lap? It seems to me that sitting still with an oil cooler it will get up to temp only a little slower cause there's no airflow while I'm waiting for it to start. But wouldn't this take much longer for the oil to get up to temp while idling with the combo unit waiting for start?
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Old 09-04-2020, 03:49 PM   #416
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NA you don't need to change the radiator. Just get a standalone cooler with a thermostat built in. Should be fine. If you go with boost and only occasionally track get the JRDR kit

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Old 09-04-2020, 08:39 PM   #417
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Quote:
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The one question I have for track and autocross days is, how do I get the oil up to temp before doing a lap? It seems to me that sitting still with an oil cooler it will get up to temp only a little slower cause there's no airflow while I'm waiting for it to start. But wouldn't this take much longer for the oil to get up to temp while idling with the combo unit waiting for start?
This was my concern as well — and this might not be the best idea, as intake temps rise, but I idle in my parking area for a bit before my first run of the day and then idle a bit in grid (usually am towards the back so have time to sit) and that seems to get temps up and for the rest of the day good to go. I trailer the car most the time so it’s a cold start that first one as well once I’m at the event. I also have the verus vents so that helps to not heat soak the intake too bad.
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Old 09-04-2020, 10:52 PM   #418
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* Cools the oil very effectively, but keeps the oil cooler longer at startup, requiring more warm-up time before hard driving.
You have this backwards if you're referencing the JSRC dual radiator/oil cooler. The coolant warms up quick in a car, much faster than oil. The coolant is going to be helping warm up the oil on cold starts, vs a standalone oil cooler
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Old 09-04-2020, 11:07 PM   #419
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You have this backwards if you're referencing the JSRC dual radiator/oil cooler. The coolant warms up quick in a car, much faster than oil. The coolant is going to be helping warm up the oil on cold starts, vs a standalone oil cooler

Hmm, I was referencing these posts.



https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...90#post3035490



They seem to agree that it keeps the oil cooler longer during cold starts.



I don't know either way.
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Old 09-04-2020, 11:16 PM   #420
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Hmm, I was referencing these posts.
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...90#post3035490

They seem to agree that it keeps the oil cooler longer during cold starts.
I don't know either way.
You know what? That makes sense. Thank you
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