twins vs miata (AGAIN)

[Entroper]

Originally Posted by ajaxthebetter

I wanted to like it visually. And I did, until I saw it in person. Looks like a bar of Dove soap on wheels.

Sure you weren't looking at an NC?

Soap bar:


Catfish:

[totopo]

Originally Posted by Poodles

Personally I've always thought they went so soft on the Miata because it's cheap. Toyota/Subaru put a lot of time into matching the shock valving and the spring setup on our cars, where it appears Mazda doesn't give a crap because so many people rip the factory stuff out anyway. Or maybe it's because old farts would complain...

I'm going to have to completely disagree with you on this one. The sport trim miatas use bilstein shocks, which are FAR superior to japanese sourced shocks.

Soft suspension actually has better road holding capabilities than hard suspension if you include bumps and normal road surface irregularities. If you don't they are the same. True harder suspension is better in transitions, but you can do that with just anti-roll bars if you wish.

Hard suspension is to prevent bottoming out when you lower your cg.

I think it's more the opposite, that miata engineers don't follow what most everyday people would want in a sports car and instead engineer what they believe is a better track car.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Poodles

No, as it's a percentage.

General rule of thumb is 3% for every 1000 feet

Yes. As in the same rate. The same percentage for each car, since both are NA

-Josh

[atlbrz]

Originally Posted by totopo

I'm going to have to completely disagree with you on this one. The sport trim miatas use bilstein shocks, which are FAR superior to japanese sourced shocks.

Soft suspension actually has better road holding capabilities than hard suspension if you include bumps and normal road surface irregularities. If you don't they are the same. True harder suspension is better in transitions, but you can do that with just anti-roll bars if you wish.

Hard suspension is to prevent bottoming out when you lower your cg.

I think it's more the opposite, that miata engineers don't follow what most everyday people would want in a sports car and instead engineer what they believe is a better track car.

Yes and no. A stock miata on a track is not much fun. There is way to much body roll and I have owned all models and have driven the ND. Mazda does design a very good suspension. There is nothing cheap about it. In stock trim, they handle alright, but have to much body roll. Add some better shocks and stiffer springs and they are great. I don't know why Mazda can't install some better coil-overs from the factory. Even the Bilsteins are not very good. BMW and Porsche have good factory suspension without excessively beating you up on the comfort. I have always thought Mazda suspension should be more BMW like.
The Subaru suspension isn't bad. Room for improvement, but decent for a factory suspension. I would like to see some better quality shocks from the factory. Even Sachs or Bilsteins would be a nice improvemnt.

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by totopo

I'm going to have to completely disagree with you on this one. The sport trim miatas use bilstein shocks, which are FAR superior to japanese sourced shocks.

Soft suspension actually has better road holding capabilities than hard suspension if you include bumps and normal road surface irregularities. If you don't they are the same. True harder suspension is better in transitions, but you can do that with just anti-roll bars if you wish.

Hard suspension is to prevent bottoming out when you lower your cg.

I think it's more the opposite, that miata engineers don't follow what most everyday people would want in a sports car and instead engineer what they believe is a better track car.

I'm running STI x Bilstein suspension which is much more compliant and the rear no longer bottoms out over bumps like the stock shocks often do. Road adhesion with bumpy turns when driven spiritedly is what amazes me the most. Worth every penny.

Originally Posted by atlbrz

Yes and no. A stock miata on a track is not much fun. There is way to much body roll and I have owned all models and have driven the ND. Mazda does design a very good suspension. There is nothing cheap about it. In stock trim, they handle alright, but have to much body roll. Add some better shocks and stiffer springs and they are great. I don't know why Mazda can't install some better coil-overs from the factory. Even the Bilsteins are not very good. BMW and Porsche have good factory suspension without excessively beating you up on the comfort. I have always thought Mazda suspension should be more BMW like.
The Subaru suspension isn't bad. Room for improvement, but decent for a factory suspension. I would like to see some better quality shocks from the factory. Even Sachs or Bilsteins would be a nice improvemnt.

Porsche runs Bilstein stock and BMW runs either Sachs or Bilstein stock. I've rode in an E92 with Sports Package and it wasn't comfy at all on bumpy roads.

I thought Mazda wanted the Miata to handle like classic British sports cars, but I'm not sure what they are like.

[Axel]

Originally Posted by Poodles

Someone's not secure in their sexuality

I'm telling you guys right now, if this existed when I bought my BRZ, I would probably have bought it instead.

I strongly considered the MX-5 RF as the replacement for my '13 BRZ. Having owned 2 Miatas in the past. But I'm pretty sure my next purchase later this year will be the Fiat 124 Abarth version pictured below. I don't track my cars, wife has a sedan for practical purposes, and the 124 has the looks, the handling, the guttural sound & blow off valve, LSD, Brembos, Recaros, Bilsteins, and the TURBO to keep a smile on my face. Loud and Proud!





Fiat might even considering a coupe version someday as this render depicts...

[Axel]

maybe I'll even go crazy and swap out for the red pieces.. I've had on my bucket list for a long time to get an Italian car that started with an "F"...



for those who prefer the Rosso Red over the grey... (and it's spiritual predecessor):

[Deep Six]

Bench racing completely stock cars is pointless. Nearly every car I've seen doing double duty has some degree of modification. I honestly don't think I've encountered a Miata, regardless of prep level that could keep pace with my FRS and thus I mistakenly thought they were just not very capable. Then I watched some of Eric Powell's videos and ate a healthy portion of humble pie!

[WolfpackS2k]

I've always thought the Miata came with a soft suspension for the same reason the BRZ comes with "average" tires: to make the car more enjoyable on public roads. Lower, more approachable handling limits.

Though if we were to modify both cars' suspensions you have to give the advantage to the Miata, with it's superior suspension design. Mac struts versus double wishbone? Not even close.

[brzaapi]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I've always thought the Miata came with a soft suspension for the same reason the BRZ comes with "average" tires: to make the car more enjoyable on public roads. Lower, more approachable handling limits.

Though if we were to modify both cars' suspensions you have to give the advantage to the Miata, with it's superior suspension design. Mac struts versus double wishbone? Not even close.

That is a good point, under hard cornering the DW is superior.

But then i have to pick on you, and ask why are you driving on Mac Struts.


But you and i have owned almost the exact same cars so i can't fault your choices. But i still scratch my head at Porsche using Mac struts.

[WolfpackS2k]

Haha, I'm well aware that my car has Mac struts, lol. And they did it because its cheap and to save room I guess (for cargo). Car can hold so much crap.

[brzaapi]

Yeah, have to make room for cargo and that flat 6 boxer. Thats a good point. I hope that was more the factor to use Mac's, than it actually being cheaper.

Of course not all Mac struts are created equal. Still no double wishbone though.

[SHWNBRZ]

I daily an NC MX5. It was super fun when I first got it (bought it used from my aunt...08 with 29k miles 11 months ago)....then all the excessive body movement....tilts/pitches....rolls...got old so in went the coilovers. Now it's better seats that I want....the leather seats aren't supportive at all. It'd be perfect if I could get a brz/frs seat(s) in it.

My BRZ has sat in the garage 4-7 days out of the week since last December.

I've put almost 12k miles in the Miata since purchasing it. I've put about 7k miles in the BRZ over the past 11 months (about 5k miles since December 2015).

Even though the BRZ is significantly more powerful(JRSC) than my NC MX5, the NC has been more fun to drive...A huge part of it is cause of the coilovers. Power delivery is very good with the NC MX5. To me, the NC feels a good bit better though the BRZ has its merits. I love the seats, and I love how much space I can have in the trunk for when I have to run errands.

No shortage of compliments from people when driving the NC. The BRZ has also had its share of compliments. A lot of them are probably not car people as they have asked what it is and what model year the car is....the car gets hand washed every week.

The only thing that sucks about having one or the other is that I can't get another vehicle. I really want an 04/05 Forester XT...I miss my old one and it'd be more useful for going out with gear.



I love this thing...

[darthpnoy1984]

Originally Posted by SHWNBRZ

I daily an NC MX5. It was super fun when I first got it (bought it used from my aunt...08 with 29k miles 11 months ago)....then all the excessive body movement....tilts/pitches....rolls...got old so in went the coilovers. Now it's better seats that I want....the leather seats aren't supportive at all. It'd be perfect if I could get a brz/frs seat(s) in it.



My BRZ has sat in the garage 4-7 days out of the week since last December.



I've put almost 12k miles in the Miata since purchasing it. I've put about 7k miles in the BRZ over the past 11 months (about 5k miles since December 2015).



Even though the BRZ is significantly more powerful(JRSC) than my NC MX5, the NC has been more fun to drive...A huge part of it is cause of the coilovers. Power delivery is very good with the NC MX5. To me, the NC feels a good bit better though the BRZ has its merits. I love the seats, and I love how much space I can have in the trunk for when I have to run errands.



No shortage of compliments from people when driving the NC. The BRZ has also had its share of compliments. A lot of them are probably not car people as they have asked what it is and what model year the car is....the car gets hand washed every week.



The only thing that sucks about having one or the other is that I can't get another vehicle. I really want an 04/05 Forester XT...I miss my old one and it'd be more useful for going out with gear.







I love this thing...

The beauty of the Miata in my opinion is all she needs is decent coilovers and tires and your all set and ready to rip the track for auto-x.




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