Nightmare driving FR-S vs driving Miata

[DarkSunrise]

Miata manuals (at least the NA, NB and NC generations I've driven) are very intuitive. It doesn't take much time for those shifters to become second nature. Same for most Honda manuals, e.g., S2000 and RSX. Those are probably the best feeling MT's out there.

The manuals in the FR-S/BRZ are not quite as good. They are notchier going into gear, the clutch has less feel and there's a slight dead spot at the top of the throttle pedal. As a result I have to think a little more about shifts around town to make sure they're smooth. The good news is with practice, you'll be shifting smoothly in no time. One thing that helped me is lowering the clutch engagement point.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8040

About the engine sound, I wasn't thrilled about it when I first bought the car. A Perrin catback easily fixed that, and I really love it now with a UEL header.

[df.dima]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Sound tube would help, exhaust will make it better but in the end it still will sound like a boxer engine.

Plugging the sound tube and adding a good axle back sure makes it much better, at least from my point of view. Plugging it in alone would be a good first cheap step. I totally get what OP is saying, the sound inside the cabin is tinny, hollow and nasal. By putting a fart pipe out the back, the cabin is filled with more low end tone, depending on what you get. Depending on RPM and windows up, I think theres some of that boxer left over, but with much more character.

@chrisngn
Regarding your list, let me go over it, as I was in similar boat, this was my first MT car, I got it new. I did have a few lessons with manual, but let me tell you, my first 2-3 months of driving it was pretty stressful, to the point that I would come home, but my mind would be rewinding and going over my commute experience of the day. My wife sometimes caught me being totally out of situation, cause I was so in it. Best thing I can advise is to get someone who drives MT, drive your car to get a feel for it and then teach you or tell you the tricks.
1. At first I thought so too, but no after 3 years it is so natural to me, I don't think about it. I think I become comfortable after a year or two, but I drive little, say by 10k.
2. Traffic was my worst nightmare, as I would stall quite a bit at first. Learn to get into first, try double clutching, rev matching. It is absolutely necessary, especially for emergency cases. You got to learn how it goes, you cant force it, but it does need a good push with revs at appropriate level. Its possible.
3. 900-1.5k rpm totally depending on how fast you want to take off. Yes, a little bit of gas helps.
4. Needs to be warm, will be worse when winter/cold temperature sets in. It does clunk etc, but there are explanations, depending on the case. Its normal imo unless its absolutely horrible sound.
5. As I initially mentioned, plug in the sound tube in passanger foot well - cheap first mod. Then see if you would go for an aftermarket axle-back/cat-back.

Miata may be different in some regards, I have not driven one, but I am fine now, so no problem. If after a few months you still don't enjoy it, just trade, if Miata works for you, great, its not worth it if it isn't fun. But don't give up right away, give it a try. I find it rewarding when you really nail the shifting, up shifts, all this mental, pedal and shifter masturbation... Its definitely not for everyone. The car seems to be designed to be clunky/mechanical in nature, I was actually blown away, coming from softer run of the mill cars.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

LOL Do you have a spiel saved or just memorized?

...... the spiel is saved ........ the memory part comes in when I try to find where I put it ........


humfrz

[FR-Sky]

Well...it takes time... I used to have all the problem you have addressed. You just dont understand your car very well yet.

High clutch release point? You havent driven a 350z/370z yet....

The only thing i dont like about this car is attracting too much haters lol~~

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by df.dima

Plugging the sound tube and adding a good axle back sure makes it much better, at least from my point of view. Plugging it in alone would be a good first cheap step. I totally get what OP is saying, the sound inside the cabin is tinny, hollow and nasal. By putting a fart pipe out the back, the cabin is filled with more low end tone, depending on what you get. Depending on RPM and windows up, I think theres some of that boxer left over, but with much more character.

@chrisngn
Regarding your list, let me go over it, as I was in similar boat, this was my first MT car, I got it new. I did have a few lessons with manual, but let me tell you, my first 2-3 months of driving it was pretty stressful, to the point that I would come home, but my mind would be rewinding and going over my commute experience of the day. My wife sometimes caught me being totally out of situation, cause I was so in it. Best thing I can advise is to get someone who drives MT, drive your car to get a feel for it and then teach you or tell you the tricks.
1. At first I thought so too, but no after 3 years it is so natural to me, I don't think about it. I think I become comfortable after a year or two, but I drive little, say by 10k.
2. Traffic was my worst nightmare, as I would stall quite a bit at first. Learn to get into first, try double clutching, rev matching. It is absolutely necessary, especially for emergency cases. You got to learn how it goes, you cant force it, but it does need a good push with revs at appropriate level. Its possible.
3. 900-1.5k rpm totally depending on how fast you want to take off. Yes, a little bit of gas helps.
4. Needs to be warm, will be worse when winter/cold temperature sets in. It does clunk etc, but there are explanations, depending on the case. Its normal imo unless its absolutely horrible sound.
5. As I initially mentioned, plug in the sound tube in passanger foot well - cheap first mod. Then see if you would go for an aftermarket axle-back/cat-back.

Miata may be different in some regards, I have not driven one, but I am fine now, so no problem. If after a few months you still don't enjoy it, just trade, if Miata works for you, great, its not worth it if it isn't fun. But don't give up right away, give it a try. I find it rewarding when you really nail the shifting, up shifts, all this mental, pedal and shifter masturbation... Its definitely not for everyone. The car seems to be designed to be clunky/mechanical in nature, I was actually blown away, coming from softer run of the mill cars.

I am the biggest advocate of plugging/deleting the kazoo around.
Yes an exhaust will help but it remains a small displacement boxer engine and no matter what you put on there it will never "punch you in the chest" as OP stated he likes.

I have never had any of the issues driving mine that you described and have never once double clutched it or felt any need to. Even cold it is fine. I seem to be in a small minority with those statements though.

[Quentin]

I preferred the shifter and clutch in my FR-S to the ND Miata I test drove last fall. The Miata shifter didn't give much feedback (it was smoother). Top down, the Miata was super nice, but I did not like it at all with the top up.


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[chaoskaze]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

LOL Do you have a spiel saved or just memorized?

Lol I must agree as I saw this somewhere before.


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[df.dima]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I have never had any of the issues driving mine that you described and have never once double clutched it or felt any need to. Even cold it is fine. I seem to be in a small minority with those statements though.

Maybe double clutching helping is all in my head. I dont think its necessary, it works without it, but to me it feels like it does or makes things easier. I have not driven another twin, but say I am going in 2nd, slow down too much, and have to get into first to go, it doesnt do without some work on my end. Certainly I think that rev matching into first makes for a smoother take off.
It did get better over time. I'm at tender mileage of 33k kms, so yea, not overly "broken in" by some people's standards .
I also even find 2nd a bit clunky, so 1st is roughest, second is about half as bad, 3 and up its easy peasy.

[daiheadjai]

Second (or third) the clutch pedal adjustment DIY - it makes things far easier (I've driven mine for 3 years, and rarely mess up a shift enough for my wife to notice, including in stop-go traffic). I think once you do this, it will also solve #2 and #3 as well (I typically start without giving gas - once you comfortably find the engagement point, it will roll on its own). First gear will always be very rough though when coasting to a stop (so your idea of popping it into neutral under say 10km/h is a good one).

For the sound, the stock boxer won't sound as smooth as an inline (this was one of my first gripes as well). If you want to enjoy the sound more in-cabin, try a drop in filter or possibly a (used/very inexpensive) short-ram/cold-air intake (I find I don't hear my exhaust too much in cabin, and I have a Greddy SP Elite axleback).
I had an Injen for about a year and a half - it sounded fantastic (throaty induction sound), but had an issue with bogging/stalling randomly on rare occasions.

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by FR-Sky

High clutch release point? You havent driven a 350z/370z yet....

Later years RSX Type-S also have a high clutch pedal catch point.

[PNW FRS]

Give it some time. I've driven MT for decades and I too found the feel of the OEM clutch a tad finicky during the first 3-6 months. As the clutch wore in and I became more in-tune with what it needed (slippage and throttle), it is just fine and more to the point... it IS a "driver's car" so you will need to develop the muscle memory and such to keep revs and clutch in harmony -- while you have a BLAST!!

Don't get discouraged.... I've driven Miata's too... and they're a great rig... but it is not a 86 and an 86 is not a Miata, so "Apples and Oranges" both good, just different.

[daiheadjai]

This thread is making me wanna test drive a Miata for kicks...

[chaoskaze]

Originally Posted by daiheadjai

This thread is making me wanna test drive a Miata for kicks...

It's a good car, lots rolls & pretty comfy.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by daiheadjai

This thread is making me wanna test drive a Miata for kicks...

Careful ........ that top down experience can be addictive .........


humfrz