Boosted BRZ/FR-S vs 997 Carrera S

[Turbowned]

Generally we've been comparing the BRZ/FR-S to the Cayman, but here's a topic I've been thinking about lately:

Many people on this forum, like myself, have been dumping obscene amounts of money into their cars. I've been modifying cars since I got my first car, but lately I've grown tired of it. The other day, I added up all the receipts for the modifications I've put in my BRZ (I know you're not supposed to, but I did!) and without forced induction I'm up to about $13,000. Now, adding approx. $6-8,000 for a good supercharger or turbo kit with all the necessary supporting mods, Figure I'd have spent $26.5k for the car, $13k in other performance and aesthetic mods, and best case $6k for forced induction, for a total of $45,500 spent on my BRZ (haven't even gotten a big brake upgrade, coil-overs or other related suspension upgrades yet, so no doubt this number would eclipse $50k soon enough). For a Subaru with 300-350hp.

Certainly not a bad thing, but this had me thinking: why didn't I just buy a faster car to begin with? Like a used 911?

Well, for me the answer is simple: as a guy a few years out of college making less than $80k/yr and with a high but very limited credit score, no bank would've been likely to loan me Porsche 911 money. Also, I suppose at the time I wasn't as much of a Porschephile as I am now. A trip to the Porsche museum in Stuttgart and various YouTube videos later, and I now find myself lusting after Porsche's legendary sports car.

Figure this: a 2005-2006 Porsche 911 Carrera S is a very highly-rated sports car with 355bhp and 295lb/ft right out of the gate. It can be had with under 50k miles for somewhere between $42-50k. It weighs just over 3,100lbs. The great sound of the 3.8L flat six will never be replicated by our little 2.0L flat fours no matter how hard we try. And while not everyone here is badge-conscious, I am, and it's a Porsche, not a Subaru or a Scion. Best of all, a 911, just about any 911, is a car you could buy and drive for the rest of your life, and it would still be worth decent money after all was said and done. Hell, even undesirable 996 prices are holding steady now!

Now, the glaring issue with these cars is the failure-prone IMS (intermediate shaft) bearing, so figure a good independent mechanic could sort this out for a couple grand at most (not something you want to leave to chance on a $25,000 engine). Apart from that, the 911 is regarded as one of the most reliable German cars made. Consumables will undoubtedly be higher than a BRZ/FR-S, but for someone who daily drives an Audi RS6, I can't imagine it being worse than what I already deal with (however if I got a 911, the RS6 would be sold and replaced with a newer A4 or maybe even a Golf).

So what do you guys think? Does anyone here have 997 experience who can compare the two? I haven't driven one since 2012 when I took out an '09 base Carrera at my work, but I have to say I was impressed. I've driven a Cayman and Boxster too but I like the 911 better. I will say that my BRZ looks better than a 911, in my opinion. However looks aren't everything.

Make mine silver with black, please!

[tahdizzle]

[UtahSleeper]

I think you answered atleast some of the question.

Looks. For some, that is alot. For me, I would ratther take a car that I love the looks of and then make it perform the way I love.

I also don't look at cars as something I will see a return on investment lol. This is why my main throw away money car is a te72.

[bfrank1972]

If you're fine with the fact that upkeep will be VASTLY greater than your BRZ, and you don't have an obsession with car-modding like some do, then there's absolutely no question.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

If you're fine with the fact that upkeep will be VASTLY greater than your BRZ, and you don't have an obsession with car-modding like some do, then there's absolutely no question.

im not sure the upkeep of a 911 will be vastly greater than a forced induction frs with 13k in other parts.

[Teseo]

OP think if he have a Porsche will not mod it.Let me say something, you will mod it

[DarkSunrise]

Looks are subjective, but I think the newer 911's look better than the Twins, especially the Carrera 4 and 4s models with the wider rear fenders. Just my opinion though.

I haven't owned a 911, but had a 2009 Boxster S for a while.

- If I was building a dedicated track car, I'd keep modding my FR-S. Cheaper to maintain, easier to fix, and more fun to wrench on. Also don't feel as bad abusing it.
- But if I wanted to spend $40k+ on a street car that could be tracked, I'd go with a Porsche. There is a sense of refinement about them that's hard to beat.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by fatoni

im not sure the upkeep of a 911 will be vastly greater than a forced induction frs with 13k in other parts.

Unless you're blowing motors right and left, trust me it is. They go through tires faster, tires will likely be more expensive, brakes are a lot more expensive, heck it takes 9 quarts of oil for an oil change

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

- If I was building a dedicated track car, I'd keep modding my FR-S. Cheaper to maintain, easier to fix, and more fun to wrench on. Also don't feel as bad abusing it.
- But if I wanted to spend $40k+ on a street car that could be tracked, I'd go with a Porsche. There is a sense of refinement about them that's hard to beat.

add in your personal tastes and this is pretty much the end of the thread

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

Unless you're blowing motors right and left, trust me it is. They go through tires faster, tires will likely be more expensive, brakes are a lot more expensive, heck it takes 9 quarts of oil for an oil change

A properly setup turbo Toyobaru will be of similar tire size to the cayman, stepping up to 18" wheels you'd only save about $200 a set on Pilot Super Sports with the Toyobaru (245 vs 235/265 widths), quality rubber generally degrades due to heat cycling so you'll get an equivalent amount of track time out of both cars unless you can't manage your equipment, slap a BBK on both and that's a wash as well, the Toyobaru takes 5 qts. of oil stock, toss in an oil cooler to bump that up to six or seven and with a turbo you should be changing oil more frequently than a naturally aspirated Porsche (which is about 10k miles per their recommended intervals).

http://www.porsche.com/usa/accessori...anceintervals/

And you won't have a warranty to fall back on. Sorry but for maintenance costs I'd give the win to the lightly track prepped Porsche over a Toyobaru with >$10k of go faster stuff.

[tennisfreak]

The way you pose the question I would choose the Porsche.


I do not/would not want to buy a brand new BRZ and then sink another $20k into it.
I had a similar experience with a low mileage Cayman 2 (2008 less than 15k miles) that I could have bought for $40k.


Decided I did not want to spend that kind of money and the FR-S offered a close enough experience stock that I could afford to buy it and a brand new GSXR 600 for less money!

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

add in your personal tastes and this is pretty much the end of the thread



A properly setup turbo Toyobaru will be of similar tire size to the cayman, stepping up to 18" wheels you'd only save about $200 a set on Pilot Super Sports with the Toyobaru (245 vs 235/265 widths), quality rubber generally degrades due to heat cycling so you'll get an equivalent amount of track time out of both cars unless you can't manage your equipment, slap a BBK on both and that's a wash as well, the Toyobaru takes 5 qts. of oil stock, toss in an oil cooler to bump that up to six or seven and with a turbo you should be changing oil more frequently than a naturally aspirated Porsche (which is about 10k miles per their recommended intervals).

http://www.porsche.com/usa/accessori...anceintervals/

And you won't have a warranty to fall back on. Sorry but for maintenance costs I'd give the win to the lightly track prepped Porsche over a Toyobaru with >$10k of go faster stuff.

Ugh whatever - people on this forum just love to debate! He's looking at a 997 911S, they have 295/30ZR19's on rear, 235/35ZR19's on the front. Go price those tires and get back to me ok? Oh the 911's stock alignment typically wear through sticky rubber a bit faster too. Stuff breaks on the 911, it's more expensive (especially stuff you can't DIY). A bit tougher to work on them too. And of course we're assuming no PCCB. But I'm not going to debate, believe what you believe - just offering a friendly opinion to OP. The whole cost of ownership thing seems moot anyway, he drives an RS6

Me? If I decided I could afford the extra maintenance, the 911 is just another league in engineering. Great cars!

[murselyfe]

$13k without forced induction or brakes or coils?!

Anyhow, I debated the same thing. My brother purchased a pre owned 2006 997.1 Carrera S not long after I purchased my BRZ.

The Porsche is a great car. I will be looking at a 991 in a few years time and have since stopped the modding on my BRZ.

With the Porsche, the mods will not end. However, the limiting factor at that point will be cost. The flat-6 really only needs a nice exhaust... the engine itself is nearly perfect. Maintenance via private Porsche shops are not outlandish either.

If you have questions, let me know as I've spent a decent amount of time driving his 997 alongside my BRZ.

[kiichiro]

Wife and I had boosted brz
Just swapped for his n her p cars...

[Jond63]

Originally Posted by murselyfe

$13k without forced induction or brakes or coils?!

JDM badges and plasti dip, yo! And stickers, lots and lots of stickers.