twins vs last gen cayman?

[switchlanez]

Don't mean to deviate too much from this thread but my curiosity for the Alpine A110 (the original World Rally Champion) keeps building. Probably a more relevant comparison against the 86 than the Cayman. 86 levels of intimate feel but with Cayman levels of performance. Might just dethrone the Cayman from what it does best (driver enjoyment).

"This thing feels light and agile on its feet in a way that a Cayman 718 does not."
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aCPgy-T9EA"]Alpine A110 review - new lightweight sports car reminds us what fun is - YouTube[/ame]


"This car is fun at normal road speeds. Finally a car that's not too overpowered or too grippy and is really fun. You don't absolutely have to thrash it...This is a landmark car...It's like a mini McLaren...it's a bit more club car than a Cayman, it's a bit more livable than an Elise. It's just the car that enthusiasts have been after for ages."
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Sj759hN02o"]Alpine A110 Review: Back with a bang! - YouTube[/ame]

[nikitopo]

A nice update to the GT3 Throttle Body for the Porsche 981 Cayman (base/S model):

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrOET6yXorE"]Agency Power GT3 Throttle Body Upgrade Install Porsche 981 Cayman S - YouTube[/ame]

[WolfpackS2k]

The new Alpine is not going to be sold in North America. So for the vast majority of posters on this forum, that car may as well not exist.

[TommyW]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

The new Alpine is not going to be sold in North America. So for the vast majority of posters on this forum, that car may as well not exist.

Right. So we're back to Cayman\86.

Adding FI to an 86 used platform and you're in the mid 20K range, fairly even with an older Cayman. Then it becomes more of a decision based on a lighter, sharper car or something more upscale and GT like. I doubt adding 100 hp to an FA20 motor will affect the reliability by much if at all. After jumping into a Cayman after my 86 and the Cayman just felt numb in comparison.

I'll be driving a Cayman at the Porsche Experience Center next week for some quick track time as it's the closest car they make to an 86 and I want to drive the closest car they have to my own. I just wish I could drive my car on their track. 45 min from home and open every day.....

[switchlanez]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

The new Alpine is not going to be sold in North America. So for the vast majority of posters on this forum, that car may as well not exist.

Like Elise and other less ubiquitous small European cars, it may not launch here initially but doesn't mean it'll never come (there is a market for it). I wouldn't get the automatic (doesn't mean a manual will never come) nor its 1st year(s) of growing pains (had all the same thoughts for the 4C). Simply its existence in the car world excites me. Being the original 1973 World Rally champ, I like to think its blue paint inspired Subaru's WRB. Now come full circle, the BRZ seems a direct inspiration to its rebirth (and Cayman inspired the BRZ).

[Edit]
Plot twist: French Automaker PSA Maps Out North American Reentry

[switchlanez]

Completely slipped my mind but contrary to one of my earlier posts in this thread, I've actually driven a 987. Last February I spent an afternoon driving my cousin's 987S then shot photos in the evening. Seeded the prospect of Caymans into my subconscious where it festered. Didn't know enough at the time to take special note of its hydraulic steering but it felt like a bigger, heavier BRZ and sounded better. I dismissed the idea of switching to a 987 because the comparison felt like a wash. Then I drove some 981s more recently and felt some edge was lost (987 was quite more raw in a good way). When I bought the BRZ in 2012, if I had known that I'd have eventually boosted it I'd tell myself to get a 987 instead. Well... I did consider selling it a few months in and called Porsche dealers about 987 CPOs but they were $50k+ back in 2012.

My favorite among the photos I shot of my cousin's silver 987S:

[perryair]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

Like Elise and other less ubiquitous small European cars, it may not launch here initially but doesn't mean it'll never come (there is a market for it). I wouldn't get the automatic (doesn't mean a manual will never come) nor its 1st year(s) of growing pains (had all the same thoughts for the 4C). Simply its existence in the car world excites me. Being the original 1973 World Rally champ, I like to think its blue paint inspired Subaru's WRB. Now come full circle, the BRZ seems a direct inspiration to its rebirth (and Cayman inspired the BRZ).

Edit: PLOT TWIST: French Automaker PSA Maps Out North American Reentry

the difficulty of creating a dealer network from scratch will still mean that any renault product might as well not exist for most americans, though it certainly does seem an exciting car. let alone the questions of whether they've paid to have it crash tested and otherwise spec'ed to american sales standards by the feds.

[switchlanez]

Originally Posted by perryair

the difficulty of creating a dealer network from scratch will still mean that any renault product might as well not exist for most americans, though it certainly does seem an exciting car. let alone the questions of whether they've paid to have it crash tested and otherwise spec'ed to american sales standards by the feds.

PSA North America has been established and announced intent to build a US dealer network. That's a win. Sure, it's a 10-year plan but, hey, baby steps. Never say never on globalization nor partnerships (Chrysler-Fiat-Alfa Romeo's very recent sports cars). And the new A110's hoodline looks oddly high compared to the vintage A110--perhaps to meet US pedestrian safety regulations. Anyway, no point in arguing off topic speculation esp. in this thread. And I agree, not likely we can buy it any time soon. I'm just excited that it even exists. Superior to the BRZ and seemingly the Cayman (new vid just released today):

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tROkW3iWhek"]NEW Alpine A110: Better Than A Porsche Cayman? - Carfection - YouTube[/ame]


And that brings us back to this thread's topic. Assuming the A110 is the ideal or unicorn car (it is a unicorn to the US), what's closer to it: BRZ or Cayman? If Alpine were to post their choice between the two in this thread, they'd probably pick BRZ. Their reasons can be inferred from the video reviews.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

And the new A110's hoodline looks oddly high compared to the vintage A110--perhaps to meet US pedestrian safety regulations.

US pedestrian safety regulations? You can thank the EU pedestrian crash standards/regulations for almost every single bloated car design of the last 15 years. Every single fat/big nosed car with oversized wheels can be blamed for this. The US standards are nowhere near as ridiculous as those damn Europeans.

It's for that very reason the new Corvette ZR1 won't even be sold in Europe. There's no crush space between the supercharger and hood (because it actually sticks up through the hood) and some of it's aerodynamic adds are "too sharp" for the EU standards.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by TommyW

Adding FI to an 86 used platform and you're in the mid 20K range, fairly even with an older Cayman. Then it becomes more of a decision based on a lighter, sharper car or something more upscale and GT like. I doubt adding 100 hp to an FA20 motor will affect the reliability by much if at all. After jumping into a Cayman after my 86 and the Cayman just felt numb in comparison.

I'll be driving a Cayman at the Porsche Experience Center next week for some quick track time as it's the closest car they make to an 86 and I want to drive the closest car they have to my own. I just wish I could drive my car on their track. 45 min from home and open every day.....

What makes you think that the only thing you'll have to worry if you add 100hp is just the reliability? What about better tires, bigger light wheels, better suspension, chassis reinforcements, better brakes? And no, you won't have a better car if you buy cheap parts from ebay or Chinese parts.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

What makes you think that the only thing you'll have to worry if you add 100hp is just the reliability? What about better tires, bigger light wheels, better suspension, chassis reinforcements, better brakes? And no, you won't have a better car if you buy cheap parts from ebay or Chinese parts.

Why would you put words in someone's mouth just to argue with them? Also, I'm pretty sure 50% more power will affect reliability.

[TommyW]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

What makes you think that the only thing you'll have to worry if you add 100hp is just the reliability? What about better tires, bigger light wheels, better suspension, chassis reinforcements, better brakes? And no, you won't have a better car if you buy cheap parts from ebay or Chinese parts.

Any time you add power there will be reliability changes compared to a completely stock motor that's a given and as power increases so does reduced reliability. For 10 K you'll have enough to do a proper FI and tune and a decent set of tires. 100 hp and the suspension and brakes (with better pads and fluid) are fine as the car in a stock state can handle the power. If you WANT better suspension and big brakes, bigger lighter wheels that's always up to you, more power or not. I don't think I mentioned using cheap parts.....

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by TommyW

Any time you add power there will be reliability changes compared to a completely stock motor that's a given and as power increases so does reduced reliability. For 10 K you'll have enough to do a proper FI and tune and a decent set of tires. 100 hp and the suspension and brakes (with better pads and fluid) are fine as the car in a stock state can handle the power. If you WANT better suspension and big brakes, bigger lighter wheels that's always up to you, more power or not. I don't think I mentioned using cheap parts.....

Ok, we agree. An amount of 10 K is reasonable enough to have good results. I just mentioned the cheap parts, because others are often saying that you can do it much cheaper. You didn't mention this yourself

[Hades]

The only thing that makes me hesitate going FI is that 10k can easily turn into 15-20k with one failure. The engine blows, then you're building the engine since it's out (why not). You then turn up the boost since your new engine is rebuilt to handle the extra boost, so then the tranny goes due to the high torque loads. Soon you're out 20k+ and you have a loud car to DD (with likely a squealing transmission due to the reinforced gears unless you have lots of $$$).