Toyota and Subaru Officially Confirm Second Gen 86! (September 27, 2019)

[scotto79]

Now lets get an AWD rally-spec 86....


someone had to say it

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by scotto79

Now lets get an AWD rally-spec 86....


someone had to say it

I could use that to get around the construction on the 401 during my weekly London to Windsor trip!

[Atmo]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

The Prius looks baddass!

In Shinjuku.

[DarkPira7e]

Not surprised. Innovators in their own right seeking partnership. I'd much rather have Subaru's AWD under a RAV 4. I had always wished that the drivetrain was made by Subaru and the engine was Toyota on our cars.

Hopefully this partnership isn't just for the advancement of midsize and large vehicles.

[Allch Chcar]

Hmm, so the first generation is going to be about ~7 years give or take a few years? I seem to recall saying as much way back when. I got mine before the mid cycle refresh so I'm good.

[Will BRZ]

Originally Posted by JesseG

Say whaaaaaat?!!! I will have to get a 2nd gen 86 if they put a flat 6 in it!! Maybe they are just doing a preliminary test to see how the car handles with a 6 cylinder??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That would be awesome. Think I’d take that over a turbo boxer 4

[Atmo]

Originally Posted by scotto79

Now lets get an AWD rally-spec 86....
someone had to say it

If it comes close to this, I'm in.

[Dake]

Yeah - I'd probably bite on an 86 All-trac.

Whatever it is, it's good timing. Since the Zupra was a disappointment for me, maybe the new 86 will be where it's at.

[mazeroni]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

Hmm, so the first generation is going to be about ~7 years give or take a few years? I seem to recall saying as much way back when. I got mine before the mid cycle refresh so I'm good.

Production began in Jan 2012 and it was released in some foreign markets earlier than the U.S. So it is almost 8 years old. If it were to release sometime in 2022 for U.S. markets it would be 10 years, which is appropriate for a car like this. Although the mid-cycle refresh was quite light, so you can also say that 10 years is too long.

[AnalogMan]

I hope Subaru's new overlords at Toyota don't homogenize all the character out of Subaru's cars.

No car is perfect, and every make has its fans and detractors. But I think Subaru makes some of the more interesting, character-filled cars on the market today. In many ways, they've successfully incorporated some of the traits of Saabs into their cars, and appeal to similar buyers. I find Subaru's more interesting and fun to drive (WRX, BRZ, Crosstrek – how many CUV’s can be had with a stick?) than the bland appliances made by Toyota.

When sclerotic a big company (= Toyota in this case) buys a spunky small one (= Subaru), it's often with the goal of hoping to infuse the moribund giant with some of the feistiness of the small one. Unfortunately, what usually happens is the opposite, and the bureaucracy of the giant smothers all the soul out of the upstart (like GM did to Saab). I hope that doesn't happen here.

If Toyota has their way (and they might, being the big money), I wouldn't be surprised if the next generation BRZ/86 came only with an automatic transmission.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by AnalogMan

I hope Subaru's new overlords at Toyota don't homogenize all the character out of Subaru's cars.

No car is perfect, and every make has its fans and detractors. But I think Subaru makes some of the more interesting, character-filled cars on the market today. In many ways, they've successfully incorporated some of the traits of Saabs into their cars, and appeal to similar buyers. I find Subaru's more interesting and fun to drive (WRX, BRZ, Crosstrek – how many CUV’s can be had with a stick?) than the bland appliances made by Toyota.

When sclerotic a big company (= Toyota in this case) buys a spunky small one (= Subaru), it's often with the goal of hoping to infuse the moribund giant with some of the feistiness of the small one. Unfortunately, what usually happens is the opposite, and the bureaucracy of the giant smothers all the soul out of the upstart (like GM did to Saab). I hope that doesn't happen here.

If Toyota has their way (and they might, being the big money), I wouldn't be surprised if the next generation BRZ/86 came only with an automatic transmission.

Toyota isn’t buying or taking over Subaru. They are working with them. That is a massive difference. Did you miss the part where Subaru was getting Toyota shares as well as Toyota getting theirs? We have been seeing an increase in this type of sharing for decades now and the consumer is the winner.

[Clutch Dog]

Originally Posted by AnalogMan

I hope Subaru's new overlords at Toyota don't homogenize all the character out of Subaru's cars.

No car is perfect, and every make has its fans and detractors. But I think Subaru makes some of the more interesting, character-filled cars on the market today. In many ways, they've successfully incorporated some of the traits of Saabs into their cars, and appeal to similar buyers. I find Subaru's more interesting and fun to drive (WRX, BRZ, Crosstrek – how many CUV’s can be had with a stick?) than the bland appliances made by Toyota.

When sclerotic a big company (= Toyota in this case) buys a spunky small one (= Subaru), it's often with the goal of hoping to infuse the moribund giant with some of the feistiness of the small one. Unfortunately, what usually happens is the opposite, and the bureaucracy of the giant smothers all the soul out of the upstart (like GM did to Saab). I hope that doesn't happen here.

If Toyota has their way (and they might, being the big money), I wouldn't be surprised if the next generation BRZ/86 came only with an automatic transmission.

this is highly unlikely due to the market that Toyota is aiming for and them knowing there would be negative impact. even if sales point otherwise. They cant take away a manual from all their sports cars lineups.
And I doubt subaru would have it that way too.

Along with the bigger company working with the smaller one. I agree with you on what history has shown us

But I feel there is an internal change in toyota as they are trying to once again market to younger buyers.

Scion itself was a test subject for Toyota and when it was announced and for three years after it was hype! I remember the booths at the chicago auto show. custom burned CD's, lights, music. it was like a mini Super street meet inside of an international car show.

This was before ven Dodge was doing their 1000 foot drag launches on all products they sell.

So I got a feeling this sort of arrangement will provide ripe fruit.


Now I am also somewhat remiss about the deal because I know Toyota has good engine building abilities and if say they leaned over one of their AR engines we'd have torque and all the hp youd need and its already engineered. why stick with a boxer which while the design is good. NA motors are fairly lackluster without boost.

I guess we will see come Tokyo Auto Show 2019.

[mazeroni]

Originally Posted by AnalogMan

I hope Subaru's new overlords at Toyota don't homogenize all the character out of Subaru's cars.

Something that's important to note is that the partnership began in 2005 and I would say very little has happened in that very long period of time. There was a Crosstrek hybrid. Was there anything else I'm forgetting? Toyota also bought like 5% of Mazda recently. So far, the only thing to come out of that is a new factory for trucks and SUVs, and the potential for Mazda to use Toyota's hybrid system.

I would not be surprised if Mazda were adopt whatever comes of the Subaru - Toyota EV products done the road.

As for the fear of homogenization, the future of all EVs is the generic "skateboard" design. This approach to engineering will 100% suck a lot of unique characteristics that we've become familiar with over the prior 100+ years of automotive engineering out of vehicles by virtue of what it is. A big slab of metal filled with batteries made by LG or Panasonic.

Each brand will have different approaches to "feel" and appearance, but there is no fighting the fact that whatever you think when you think Toyota, Ford, Subaru, VW, etc., dies with the combustion engine. VW has even said no new ICE development after 2026 (?) unless there is a strong case for it.

I'm confident that we have around 10 years left to enjoy what has made this era of cars unique. After that, it's all about rims, laser headlights, seat materials, and infotainment.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Atmo

If it comes close to this, I'm in.

I miss my Celica. I'd be really stoked if they brought it back.