CSG and RCE tag-team suspension Q&A thread! Ask us anything!

[Myv]

Originally Posted by Ashikabi

@Myv for a 1.5inch drop you won't need anything extra. Nice coilovers have camber adjustment up front anyways. For that short of a drop you can get any brand coilovers. Just make sure they adjust from the bottom. I expect any $800+ coilovers will have this feature. I run Stance. I've heard great things about KW. Tein is a big name and Fortune500 is loved by the S2k crowd. All coilovers are powdercoated, rust in the winter should not be a problem, I'd run them year round.

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

For functionality I wouldn't recommend those wheel specs. That's too wide IMO and I don't recommend staggered.

Some coilovers deal with salt/winter better than others. KW and our RCE coilovers are virtually rustproof while others WILL rust if they're not looked after.

Many coilovers come with camber plates, some do not. KW and our RCE coilover have a slotted lower mount to allow camber adjustment and then you can reuse stock mounts or add camber plates for even more adjustment. Depending on how much camber you want, camber plates may not be necessary. For the rear, adjustment is recommended and either the Whiteline rear camber adjuster bushing or adjustable lower control arms are your options.

- Andy

Thank you both for your suggestions! I do have ST coils in mind, and I'll look into the LCA/rear camber bushings for sure.

Definitely wouldn't do the staggered if I was to do it over again, but at the moment I'll be sticking with these wheels. I'd much prefer some 17" square setup in the future though.

[DeaconRoc]

@CSG Mike, @Racecomp Engineering

I'm based in the UK and hoping you could help me out with a couple of questions?

I use my car for 90% daily and 10% track (sprints).

I have a set of coilovers to be fitted (Meister R / Black Art Designs GT1's). No one in the UK has tried these on a GT86 yet so I'm a bit of a guinea pig but the involvement of Black Art Designs has made me take the risk. They come with a 6kg front and rear spring and are aimed to compete with ohlins. They are camber adjustable tops at front and I have whiteline rear camber bushes to be fitted at the same time. I'm looking at an alignment something like 0 toe at the front, -1.5 deg rear and camber -2 deg front, -1.75 rear. I also have a whiteline adjustable 16mm rear sway bar I was intending to get fitted and set at the softest.

So a few questions:-
1. What do you think to these alignments for my intended use?
2. Would you fit the rear sway bar and if so what setting on?
3. Would I be better fitting the front 20mm adjustable whiteline sway at the same time and again what fitting?
4. Or would I be better coilovers only and no sways?

I am running 17x7" et40 6.5kg wheels with 215/45/17 federal 595rs-r tyres.

I have found on track that body roll has been an issue which I'd why I was thinking of the sway bars as well as the coilovers so that I could run the coilovers a bit softer for our rubbish uk roads and also get away with slightly less camber (as the alignment I mentioned) so as to not wear the tyre edges too much.

Any thoughts gratefully received and sorry about the essay!

[sittinSideways]

@CSG Mike, @Racecomp Engineering

Hi guys, I recently bought a set of Tein MonoSports (couldn't pass it up after I found out CSG helped design them). These are my entry-level coils that I'm gonna practice on before I eventually move to CSG spec Super Circuit coils.

Anyway, I need some help setting up the ride height. Moto Miwa stated that the FRS rear and front arms work best when lowered 20mm +-15mm. I lowered my car down to 35mm all around. However, I wanted to verify this with you.

1) When measured from the center of the wheel directly up to the fender, should the fronts and the rear be the same height, or should the rear by slightly slightly higher? Basically, how should I lower the front vs. rear? I know there are a few variables to this, the biggest one how much gas is in the tank, so let's just assume I'm talking about with a full gas tank.

[Kkobe2]

Are the RS*R super downs too low for stock struts? Will it cause premature damage or failure of the shocks?

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by Ashikabi

Hey guys, great sticky. I don't have time to read 250 pages do please forgive me if I'm reasking these questions

How does a stiffer spring rate in the rear(from the front) affect handling? Also how does changing the damper setting affect handling from front to rear? Ie... Stiffer rear springs increase oversteer, increase front damping increases understeer, etc. Spring rates I have are 6k front 7k rear(not going to change these but I want to understand how this will affect AutoX from stock so I can make changes to damping or add other suspension parts like a stiffer sway bar)

spring rates determine the rate of weight transfer, resistance to body roll, and wheel frequency over bumps


higher rates mean faster weight transfer. So if you have stiff springs on one end and soft springs on another, one end will get loaded up faster.


body roll generally affects your hand eye coordination (easier to drive a flat car) but also the change in camber. A car that rolls a lot has a lot of dynamic changes going on with its alignment, minimizing it helps add predictability and stability.


also aerodynamics, but that's a different thing.


with regards to tuning with dampers, that's an advanced topic. And it would best to google how dampers work to understand the basics before asking on how to tune them. (generally if you learn how they work and what they're responsible for then turning strategies will present themselves).

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by sittinSideways

@CSG Mike, @Racecomp Engineering

Hi guys, I recently bought a set of Tein MonoSports (couldn't pass it up after I found out CSG helped design them). These are my entry-level coils that I'm gonna practice on before I eventually move to CSG spec Super Circuit coils.

Anyway, I need some help setting up the ride height. Moto Miwa stated that the FRS rear and front arms work best when lowered 20mm +-15mm. I lowered my car down to 35mm all around. However, I wanted to verify this with you.

1) When measured from the center of the wheel directly up to the fender, should the fronts and the rear be the same height, or should the rear by slightly slightly higher? Basically, how should I lower the front vs. rear? I know there are a few variables to this, the biggest one how much gas is in the tank, so let's just assume I'm talking about with a full gas tank.

35mm is fine for most people. There is IMO some dialing in that can be done based on how you drive the car and the spring rates you're using (and of course a corner balance is recommended if you track the car).

An even drop front vs. rear is a safe way to go. You can actually adjust the balance of the car slightly with rake, but that's a bit more advanced. Generally, a higher rear will result in a shift towards oversteer.

- Andrew

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by DeaconRoc

@CSG Mike, @Racecomp Engineering

I'm based in the UK and hoping you could help me out with a couple of questions?

I use my car for 90% daily and 10% track (sprints).

I have a set of coilovers to be fitted (Meister R / Black Art Designs GT1's). No one in the UK has tried these on a GT86 yet so I'm a bit of a guinea pig but the involvement of Black Art Designs has made me take the risk. They come with a 6kg front and rear spring and are aimed to compete with ohlins. They are camber adjustable tops at front and I have whiteline rear camber bushes to be fitted at the same time. I'm looking at an alignment something like 0 toe at the front, -1.5 deg rear and camber -2 deg front, -1.75 rear. I also have a whiteline adjustable 16mm rear sway bar I was intending to get fitted and set at the softest.

So a few questions:-
1. What do you think to these alignments for my intended use?
2. Would you fit the rear sway bar and if so what setting on?
3. Would I be better fitting the front 20mm adjustable whiteline sway at the same time and again what fitting?
4. Or would I be better coilovers only and no sways?

I am running 17x7" et40 6.5kg wheels with 215/45/17 federal 595rs-r tyres.

I have found on track that body roll has been an issue which I'd why I was thinking of the sway bars as well as the coilovers so that I could run the coilovers a bit softer for our rubbish uk roads and also get away with slightly less camber (as the alignment I mentioned) so as to not wear the tyre edges too much.

Any thoughts gratefully received and sorry about the essay!

1. -1.5 deg rear toe? That's a bit much. I prefer close to 0. The rest sounds like a fine street/track compromise, though a little more camber would help handling.
2. Try the car without bigger swaybars first. They're easy to add later.
3. Yes, if you're going to add swaybars, add front and rear. 20mm front and 16mm rear is a fine combo.
4. Start there.

- Andrew

[DeaconRoc]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

1. -1.5 deg rear toe? That's a bit much. I prefer close to 0. The rest sounds like a fine street/track compromise, though a little more camber would help handling.
2. Try the car without bigger swaybars first. They're easy to add later.
3. Yes, if you're going to add swaybars, add front and rear. 20mm front and 16mm rear is a fine combo.
4. Start there.

- Andrew

Thanks for the response

When you say go a bit higher on the camber do you mean front and rear and what would you suggest?

Thanks again!

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by DeaconRoc

Thanks for the response

When you say go a bit higher on the camber do you mean front and rear and what would you suggest?

Thanks again!

-2.5 front and -2.0 rear would be nice.

- Andrew

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

-2.5 front and -2.0 rear would be nice.

- Andrew

Question: I am currently at -1.7 front on RCE Yellows and camber bolts in the top hole. Is there any reason I couldn't put camber bolts in the bottom hole as well to get me up to -2.3-2.5? Or is that a safety hazard and it's time to look at top hats for that extra bit of camber?

Rears are at -2.0 purely from the Yellows, no LCA.

I daily drive this car, no autox or track at the moment. I do occasionally drive like an asshat on empty roads.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

Question: I am currently at -1.7 front on RCE Yellows and camber bolts in the top hole. Is there any reason I couldn't put camber bolts in the bottom hole as well to get me up to -2.3-2.5? Or is that a safety hazard and it's time to look at top hats for that extra bit of camber?

Rears are at -2.0 purely from the Yellows, no LCA.

I daily drive this car, no autox or track at the moment. I do occasionally drive like an asshat on empty roads.

You can double up on camber bolts. You'll get some different answers on whether they'll slip or not, but installed and torqued correctly using quality bolts, you'll be fine. You might want to think about camber plates anyway though. Rear sound good.

- Andy

[DeaconRoc]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

-2.5 front and -2.0 rear would be nice.

- Andrew

Thank you!

I'll aim for these settings with just a little rear toe when the suspension upgrades are fitted.

[troek]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

You can double up on camber bolts. You'll get some different answers on whether they'll slip or not, but installed and torqued correctly using quality bolts, you'll be fine. You might want to think about camber plates anyway though. Rear sound good.

- Andy

I can confirm this. I ran double camber bolts for quite awhile, hitting the curbs on the track, never had an issue. i also agree camber plates is a better option, but when in a pinch...

[ajc209]

Since my last post was lost I will try again.

How do the Bilstein Dampers compare to the Ohlin DFV?

I cant seem to find a dyno for the Bilsteins, but what I really want to know is:

1) what percentage of critical damping the Bilstein B8 have with the 5kg RCE tarmacs at 1inch second and 2inch/second...

2) how digressive characteristics of the Bilstein B8 compare to the Ohlins in general.


Thanks