Brake pad recommendation

[ZDan]

I'm a big fan of CSG Spec C2 for track use. Great bite and modulation, and work over a very wide temperature range, OK on the street, and mine lasted ~9 events/18 track days! With PP/Brembos...

[TommyW]

What is the thickness of our pads? I'm assuming they are all the same?

[jflogerzi]

How much street driving and how much noise can you deal with? Do not run Carbotech XP pads on the street.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by TommyW

What is the thickness of our pads? I'm assuming they are all the same?

depends a bit on make and model.

CSG pads are 18mm (thicker than OEM because they're designed to be run WITHOUT shims, so you get some extra pad material that eats up the shim's total thickness + grease) for base calipers

PP caliper pads are 15mm.

Other aftermarket calipers available for the 86 platform can be up to 25mm.


Remember that thickness alone doesn't determine pad "life", but total pad mass.

For example, the pad mass of a AP Sprint or Stoptech C43 kit is actually identical to a stock pad, even though the AP/ST pad is 20mm vs stock 18mm, because the stock shape pad is taller.

[Angrypuppy]

After two track days this weekend it was clear brakes were priority one. While I knew they wouldn’t be great I didn’t think stock pads and fluid would be as bad as they were.

Communicated with counterspace garage, maybe Mike, a few times today. They were great to deal with and I settled on the C1 pad for the front and C11 for the rear. Paid to have them overnighted so I can get them on the car by Saturday for another day at the track.

I had narrowed it down to the C1 or PFC 08 endurance.

[Fletch]

I just tracked my '22 BRZ for the first time yesterday at Willow Springs (which is light on braking). I had already upgraded to Hawk DTC-60s with SS lines and Motul 660 last week. Stock calipers and rotors.

After the first session the pedal was already softer and longer and in further sessions got worse and inconsistent to the point I was a little worried they might fail. They did manage to stand up for 4 sessions however.

The car wreaked of pad burn and looking at the fronts they had visible paint bubbling on the rear of the pads. When i can work out how to upload photos ill post a pic.

[villainous_frx]

Originally Posted by Fletch

I just tracked my '22 BRZ for the first time yesterday at Willow Springs (which is light on braking). I had already upgraded to Hawk DTC-60s with SS lines and Motul 660 last week. Stock calipers and rotors.

After the first session the pedal was already softer and longer and in further sessions got worse and inconsistent to the point I was a little worried they might fail. They did manage to stand up for 4 sessions.

The car wreaked of pad burn and looking at the fronts they had visible paint bubbling on the rear of the pads. When i can work out how to upload photos ill post a pic.

Did you have TCS and other stability controls active? If so, those put a lot of heat into the braking system and will have contributed to the pedal feel becoming squishy.

[Fletch]

Originally Posted by villainous_frx

Did you have TCS and other stability controls active? If so, those put a lot of heat into the braking system and will have contributed to the pedal feel becoming squishy.

No everything was off (using long press on the left hand traction button).

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Fletch

I just tracked my '22 BRZ for the first time yesterday at Willow Springs (which is light on braking). I had already upgraded to Hawk DTC-60s with SS lines and Motul 660 last week. Stock calipers and rotors.

After the first session the pedal was already softer and longer and in further sessions got worse and inconsistent to the point I was a little worried they might fail. They did manage to stand up for 4 sessions however.

The car wreaked of pad burn and looking at the fronts they had visible paint bubbling on the rear of the pads. When i can work out how to upload photos ill post a pic.

That's pretty typical of Hawk pads.

Give the CSG pads a try. They fundamentally run cooler, and you'll visibly see it in the silver not bubbling.

The soft pedal could be the pads getting really hot and transmissing heat to the caliper, or possibly an incomplete flush. A lot of folks try to skimp on the initial flush (I'm guility of it too), and end up with a soft pedal. Keep bleeding, and this should improve. If it doesn't, then your brake are just running way too hot, whether it's a characteristic of the pad, too much ABS use, or the particular track being hard on brakes.

At this time, I recommend 2L for the initial flush, and then 0.5-1.0L for bleeds.

[Fletch]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

That's pretty typical of Hawk pads.

Give the CSG pads a try. They fundamentally run cooler, and you'll visibly see it in the silver not bubbling.

The soft pedal could be the pads getting really hot and transmissing heat to the caliper, or possibly an incomplete flush. A lot of folks try to skimp on the initial flush (I'm guility of it too), and end up with a soft pedal. Keep bleeding, and this should improve. If it doesn't, then your brake are just running way too hot, whether it's a characteristic of the pad, too much ABS use, or the particular track being hard on brakes.

At this time, I recommend 2L for the initial flush, and then 0.5-1.0L for bleeds.

Thanks for the info. To be honest im new to BRZ's so I hadn't heard of your pads before. I've generally run Hawks on my other street and race cars - not least because of contingency credits :P

Im curious how your pads manage to dissipate the heat better than the big brands?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Fletch

Thanks for the info. To be honest im new to BRZ's so I hadn't heard of your pads before. I've generally run Hawks on my other street and race cars - not least because of contingency credits :P

Im curious how your pads manage to dissipate the heat better than the big brands?

The function of brakes is to turn kinetic energy into anything but kinetic energy. That conversion results in different ratios of heat, vibration (sound, both audible and inaudible), and in the case of CSG pads and other high end pads, endothermic ablation.

Additionally, CSG pads are pressed at a higher tonnage, which results in better response and less pad squish (yes, pads squish!), which means less system pressure is needed, also resulting in less waste heat.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Additionally, CSG pads are pressed at a higher tonnage, which results in better response and less pad squish (yes, pads squish!), which means less system pressure is needed, also resulting in less waste heat.

Honestly this is my favorite feature of the pad. It has really consistent feel at the limit even when hot. XP10's felt squishy to me and it made it tough to threshold brake as they didn't behave consistently and felt, as you said, squishy.

[jflogerzi]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Honestly this is my favorite feature of the pad. It has really consistent feel at the limit even when hot. XP10's felt squishy to me and it made it tough to threshold brake as they didn't behave consistently and felt, as you said, squishy.

Intresting I have never felt this with my current set of XP10's but I am on a Wilwood caliper BBK

[RT-BRZ]

Originally Posted by jflogerzi

Intresting I have never felt this with my current set of XP10's but I am on a Wilwood caliper BBK

I have a the RR Racing BBK with Wilwoods so I don't experience anything bad now.

That's the real key though. Not only is the rotor now bigger, the caliper went from a two piston to a six piston and a sliding caliper to a fixed piston with even pressure. We don't see these kinds of issues because we have greater surface area to dissipate the heat, more even/greater pad pressure with the six piston setup and the dynamics of how the pad is "squeezed" are completely different because of the six piston nature.

I only state that because while this is an interesting thread to read, it doesn't mean much to those of us that have BBKs.