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Old 11-09-2021, 02:39 PM   #29
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Adding more power to an NA engine, even if it has been "proven" that internals can handle it, still contains a level of risk, is like driving a bomb on wheels, you can delay it, but the trigger is still there.
Why not just say adding power to any engine? Why specify NA? Would adding 50hp to a boosted engine be any better? It could break rods the same. There might be less risk to knock, but fueling can solve that. Many turbocharged engines today run with higher static compression than NA motors of the past, partially due to direct injection and other technologies like fuel injection, computer controlled timing and variable valve timing, and similarly, we can do a lot with ethanol. The WRX FA20F can achieve more power with better reliability on pump gas, but the 86 and WRX have similar rod limits and reliability on E85.

Some turbocharged engines employ methods to encourage tumbling of the air to better atomize the fuel/air mixture to avoid knock because there is high cylinder pressures.

Many NA K-motors love boost and respond well and are beasts. I’m just saying we don’t need to paint the picture that boost is inherently a ticking time bomb on NA motors any different than adding more power to any engine, if the proper precautions are taken.
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Old 11-09-2021, 02:57 PM   #30
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Why not just say adding power to any engine? Why specify NA? Would adding 50hp to a boosted engine be any better? It could break rods the same. There might be less risk to knock, but fueling can solve that. Many turbocharged engines today run with higher static compression than NA motors of the past, partially due to direct injection and other technologies like fuel injection, computer controlled timing and variable valve timing, and similarly, we can do a lot with ethanol. The WRX FA20F can achieve more power with better reliability on pump gas, but the 86 and WRX have similar rod limits and reliability on E85.

Some turbocharged engines employ methods to encourage tumbling of the air to better atomize the fuel/air mixture to avoid knock because there is high cylinder pressures.

Many NA K-motors love boost and respond well and are beasts. I’m just saying we don’t need to paint the picture that boost is inherently a ticking time bomb on NA motors any different than adding more power to any engine, if the proper precautions are taken.

I mentioned it because we are talking about the FA20, which is inherently NA. The statement does make it sound like adding boost is inherently a bad idea. But that's why I clarified that there are ways to mitigate risks. Every modification done to any vehicle has to stay within certain parameters that won't put the joining components at risk. In this case, as fun as it can be, and a route I will be going soon, adding boost to an engine such as the FA20 can be done, "safely", but there are things to consider such as tune, oil cooler, etc.

But what every person that blindly goes into adding power to their engine should be clear on is that the moment you start, you are on borrowed time, no matter how you see it, just have to be prepared for when something such as rods decide to sing "Knocking on Heavens Doors". Everything in moderation with proper calculation.
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Old 11-09-2021, 03:34 PM   #31
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Yea I agree. When you look at it from an engineering perspective it all depends of how much you’re willing to reduce the manufacturer’s factor of safety. If they used a FS of 2, the engine as a whole was designed to stand up to twice its design load. Anywhere from 1.5-3.0 is a common number for general mechanical engineering. Every engine has some kind of headroom designed into it. Some more than others, and most of the time the early pioneers of extra boost find out roughly how much.

I think bolting on a Harrop/Edelbrock blower and running a 93 tune on their standard pulleys would be an acceptable risk for most people (read: very low risk of failure added), while offering enough gains to be worth the effort. Like others have said, it’s all about moderation .
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Old 11-09-2021, 04:43 PM   #32
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It isn’t about feeling better because I never felt worse, if that makes sense. I’m not too concerned with sensitive types. I just felt like responding literally because it added to the topic. But I’ll try: Sorry if that hurt your feelings not getting your joke acknowledged or me responding in a way that was in any way different than what you were expecting or hoping for. **Sad face**
My feelings aren't hurt. I'm just confused why you're so dense and refuse to have self awareness of this. But if your robotic responses are a form of self awareness, then computers have succeeded.
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Old 11-09-2021, 06:56 PM   #33
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I mentioned it because we are talking about the FA20, which is inherently NA. The statement does make it sound like adding boost is inherently a bad idea. But that's why I clarified that there are ways to mitigate risks. Every modification done to any vehicle has to stay within certain parameters that won't put the joining components at risk. In this case, as fun as it can be, and a route I will be going soon, adding boost to an engine such as the FA20 can be done, "safely", but there are things to consider such as tune, oil cooler, etc.

But what every person that blindly goes into adding power to their engine should be clear on is that the moment you start, you are on borrowed time, no matter how you see it, just have to be prepared for when something such as rods decide to sing "Knocking on Heavens Doors". Everything in moderation with proper calculation.
My lead nurse always responds to anyone who says that their patient is dying by saying that so is he, that we are all dying, and that they are just dying faster.

I think there is a question of longevity and then a separate risk for catastrophic engine failure. Modern engines will last 300k+ miles with regular maintenance before the tolerances inside the motor are so poor that compression drops or failure occurs like the valve train gets sloppy and throws a rocker. The mileage vastly exceeds the typical life of the car, which means reducing the longevity with power modifications can potentially be done without ever being a concern. Instead of the engine lasting 367k miles, it now will last 182k miles. Add 40-45% increase in power with a CARB tuned SC kit, and drive it reasonable like most people would any other commuting vehicle, and I would be surprised if the engine didn't last the life of the car. Take a NA car to the track with headers and a tune, and a person would likely see more wear and a greater propensity for oil starvation and catastrophic fail than the mildly boosted street car by a huge margin.

Having been over the 350whp quoted limit, I would say that a conservative tune at 10psi'ish with E85 is probably the best place to stay for longevity. A bar of boost on this car like what I had is pretty fast, and it was over 100% gain in horsepower like a Mustang GT making 800-900hp on a stock block. If someone takes anything to a track then all bets are off, as far as I am concerned, and then they are really on borrowed time. More power will only make things worse, as there is a greater need for heat management and higher likelihood for boost errors like in turbo applications, but the track is a different beast with fuel and oil starvation being factors on this platform, but yeah, a mild boost setup on a street application should be fine for the life of the car.
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Old 11-09-2021, 07:10 PM   #34
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My feelings aren't hurt. I'm just confused why you're so dense and refuse to have self awareness of this. But if your robotic responses are a form of self awareness, then computers have succeeded.
Dude, it's just next-level passive aggression. It's super disheartening when the attempt at friendly banter is dismissed but that's just how it goes with entitled, insecure people. It's the I'm-better-than-you defense.
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Old 11-09-2021, 07:20 PM   #35
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Dude, it's just next-level passive aggression. It's super disheartening when the attempt at friendly banter is dismissed but that's just how it goes with entitled, insecure people. It's the I'm-better-than-you defense.
Eh, I know he's like that. Just confused why he's such a buzzkill. Oh well.
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Old 11-09-2021, 07:22 PM   #36
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My feelings aren't hurt. I'm just confused why you're so dense and refuse to have self awareness of this. But if your robotic responses are a form of self awareness, then computers have succeeded.
I wasn't being dense, stupid or ignorant (adding a few synonyms for clarity). I simply ignored your joke, and instead, I responded to the thoughts your joke inspired because those thoughts were relevant to the thread, and it is how I felt like responding at the time. Why is that hard to understand? What is confusing about that? Did I fail on forum or social decorum in some way that really matters? You seem sour about it like the joke was waisted on me or that my response ruined your joke for others. I don't know why you seem to care about how your joke was received to a stranger/s online that you have never met or whatever this is. It is weirding me out a little. I'm going to back away from this conversation...slowly...so hopefully I am not followed.
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Old 11-09-2021, 07:30 PM   #37
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Dude, it's just next-level passive aggression. It's super disheartening when the attempt at friendly banter is dismissed but that's just how it goes with entitled, insecure people. It's the I'm-better-than-you defense.
You either see a lot or are being very judgmental. Maybe putting people in boxes is helpful for you. I can't tell which it is.

Maybe friendly banter is not really a thing for me, and if that is you then do you, but if it is not me then can I just be me, or do I need to appease/humor others just because it was friendly?
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Old 11-09-2021, 09:23 PM   #38
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Eh, I know he's like that. Just confused why he's such a buzzkill. Oh well.
Contempt? Insecurity? Whatever the reason, fuck it. Life's too short.
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Old 11-09-2021, 09:27 PM   #39
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Contempt? Insecurity? Whatever the reason, fuck it. Life's too short.
I think asshole sums it up best. I mean, he acknowledged the humor behind my initial response yet gave some long winded rhetorical response and then continues to get upset. So meh, while I do feel the urge to fuck with him, it's best to just drop it.
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Old 11-09-2021, 10:36 PM   #40
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Been called dense and an asshole and other things multiple times here. Seems like the ad hominem attacks are all on one side, unless passive aggression is worse than open aggression.
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Old 11-09-2021, 10:58 PM   #41
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Been called dense and an asshole and other things multiple times here. Seems like the ad hominem attacks are all on one side, unless passive aggression is worse than open aggression.
Should have just responded normal or not responded at all. You drew first blood.
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Old 11-10-2021, 12:28 AM   #42
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Should have just responded normal or not responded at all. You drew first blood.
Listen to yourself.
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