follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Delicious Tuning
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing

Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing Relating to suspension, chassis, and brakes. Sponsored by 949 Racing.


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-11-2022, 12:41 PM   #15
CSG Mike
 
CSG Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: S2000 CR
Location: Orange County
Posts: 14,110
Thanks: 8,755
Thanked 13,748 Times in 6,607 Posts
Mentioned: 947 Post(s)
Tagged: 14 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat View Post
Mike, can you please clarify what Hawk pads you're talking about? DTC is a range of five different compounds. In my experience, the most street-friendly (30) isn't up to the challenge of a stock-powered 86 on SX2s at the track. I use 60s regularly on track and like them. That is the middle of the range. I believe they don't last as long as the CSG track pads (C2?), but in the big picture have similar feel. Then there are a couple even more heat-tolerant DTC compounds over the 60s.
I don't think I've ever driven the CSG CP compound. That said, I have a tough time believing any street pad is as heat tolerant as a DTC-60.
I could be wrong. It has happened once or twice before. But if you could clarify which DTC compound you're referring to I think that would be helpful.
Oh, and I totally believe the CP compound could be better than the XP10. The fact that Carbotech claims them as track-only pads is laughable. At least for an 86.
The entire range, when it comes to sheer capacity.

I've been running it on my 2022 on stock calipers, and the CP has survived Autoclub Speedway, and quite a few of the NorCal Veterans with the 22 are also using the CP successfully.

As always, if on a stickier tire (A052, RT660, r-compounds, slicks), the user will want to be on a race pad, as the CP's friction is better matched to true street tires and low-grip track tires. It'll still work with the stickier tires, but the long pedal won't make for the best heel-toeing.
CSG Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2022, 12:45 PM   #16
Pat
Senior Member
 
Pat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Drives: 2014 BRZ
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,539
Thanks: 1,279
Thanked 988 Times in 549 Posts
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSG Mike View Post
The entire range, when it comes to sheer capacity.
Hmmm. OK, maybe I don't understand what "capacity" means. I think of that as a pad's ability to tolerate high heat without significantly affecting performance. Is that correct? If so, you're saying the CSG street compound is a better, more stable compound at extreme temperatures than a DTC-80?
I feel like I'm missing something here. That sounds too good to be true. I know you love the CSG pads, but there is a reason experienced drivers choose to run two different compounds when driving their street car on the track. I must be missing something.
__________________
Pat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2022, 12:47 PM   #17
CSG Mike
 
CSG Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: S2000 CR
Location: Orange County
Posts: 14,110
Thanks: 8,755
Thanked 13,748 Times in 6,607 Posts
Mentioned: 947 Post(s)
Tagged: 14 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat View Post
Hmmm. OK, maybe I don't understand what "capacity" means. I think of that as a pad's ability to tolerate high heat without significantly affecting performance. Is that correct? If so, you're saying the CSG street compound is a better, more stable compound at extreme temperatures than a DTC-80?
I feel like I'm missing something here. That sounds too good to be true. I know you love the CSG pads, but there is a reason experienced drivers choose to run two different compounds when driving their street car on the track. I must be missing something.
It'll handle the heat.

The friction is designed to pair with a street tire, so you need to get much deeper into the pedal than with a race pad that has race friction response.
CSG Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2022, 12:49 PM   #18
Pat
Senior Member
 
Pat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Drives: 2014 BRZ
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,539
Thanks: 1,279
Thanked 988 Times in 549 Posts
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSG Mike View Post
It'll handle the heat.

The friction is designed to pair with a street tire, so you need to get much deeper into the pedal than with a race pad that has race friction response.
Ahhh...okay thank you. So the coefficient of friction is stable across a wide temperature range. It just takes more pedal pressure. That sounds similar to a DS2500. Am I barking up the right tree?
__________________
Pat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2022, 12:51 PM   #19
CSG Mike
 
CSG Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: S2000 CR
Location: Orange County
Posts: 14,110
Thanks: 8,755
Thanked 13,748 Times in 6,607 Posts
Mentioned: 947 Post(s)
Tagged: 14 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat View Post
Ahhh...okay thank you. So the coefficient of friction is stable across a wide temperature range. It just takes more pedal pressure. That sounds similar to a DS2500. Am I barking up the right tree?
You have the right idea, difference being the CP will handle way more heat than a DS2500, and IF you get into the upper end of the heat range, the CP will last significantly longer. Ultimately, the CP isn't a race pad, and if a user is sitting at race temps, they really should be using a race pad.

To put it in perspective, I've been running the CP on my Turbo BRZ and not having fade issues. I do have to get a bit deeper into the pedal, and the CP isn't a great match when I'm running race compounds, but with SX2 or RS4, it's just-right.

The CP is for the user who runs street tires, street drives their car, but want's the capacity to do an occasional track day here and there without having to commit to race pads. Anyone tracking regularly really should be using race pads for optimal pad life/dollar.
CSG Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to CSG Mike For This Useful Post:
Pat (03-11-2022)
Old 03-11-2022, 06:07 PM   #20
FeRS
bruh
 
FeRS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Drives: Raven 2015 FRS
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 51
Thanks: 32
Thanked 25 Times in 17 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSG Mike View Post
This is my recommendation, and I think it'll make more sense.

The CP, while a street pad, has enough capacity to outperform most entry level race pads, such as a Carbotech XP10 or Hawk DTC, when it comes to raw heat tolerance.
This is nice to know, I'm sure CP will be great in that case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSG Mike View Post
Start with the CP, and the brake fluid of your choice (Endless RF-650 or Project Mu G-Four are my recommendations).

If and when you start fading the CP on track (will take quite a bit, and you will have a lot of room for learning before this happens), retire the CP to Street and AutoX duty, and use the C1 on track. With Indy500 tires, and paying careful attention to NOT over-using ABS, you should not encounter any fade with the CP.

Wet boiling point is irellevent if you're changing your brake fluid regularly, as you should be if you're doing any sort of performance driving.
I was mostly interested in the region from like 30-50% from dry to wet boiling points, it seems SRF has a much larger usable range than the other fluids. However, I did read on the rennlist forums that RF-650 is less hygroscopic than other fluids which also would increase its usable life as far as I can tell. Do those data points matter at all or does the regular changing negate any effects those would have?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSG Mike View Post
IMO, spend the money you save from only getting 1 set of pads on an AIM Solo 2 DL, so that you can focus on improving the driver mod, which you will keep for the rest of your life as well as any other car you get in the future.
I was actually considering one of those. Is the DL's capability to read from the ECU actually that helpful over the normal Solo 2?
__________________
<-- why is this an emote
FeRS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2022, 06:12 PM   #21
CSG Mike
 
CSG Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: S2000 CR
Location: Orange County
Posts: 14,110
Thanks: 8,755
Thanked 13,748 Times in 6,607 Posts
Mentioned: 947 Post(s)
Tagged: 14 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FeRS View Post
I was actually considering one of those. Is the DL's capability to read from the ECU actually that helpful over the normal Solo 2?
You can see ABS use, brake pressure, throttle usage, steering, and more.

It gives you nearly as much data as a pro car, for less than 5% of a pro setup price.
CSG Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to CSG Mike For This Useful Post:
FeRS (03-11-2022)
Old 03-11-2022, 06:38 PM   #22
villainous_frx
Off to the track!
 
villainous_frx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Drives: '14 Lava
Location: London Ontario
Posts: 267
Thanks: 405
Thanked 347 Times in 157 Posts
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FeRS View Post
Is the DL's capability to read from the ECU actually that helpful over the normal Solo 2?
Solo2 non-DL is more or less a GPS lap timer, while the DL version is a GPS lap timer as well as a data logger and data output screen (if you'd like, plenty of configurations). Personally, I got a used Solo DL off of ebay for less than 50% the cost of a new Solo2 DL.
__________________
villainous_frx is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to villainous_frx For This Useful Post:
FeRS (03-11-2022)
Old 03-11-2022, 09:34 PM   #23
FeRS
bruh
 
FeRS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Drives: Raven 2015 FRS
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 51
Thanks: 32
Thanked 25 Times in 17 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSG Mike View Post
You can see ABS use, brake pressure, throttle usage, steering, and more.

It gives you nearly as much data as a pro car, for less than 5% of a pro setup price.
Thanks for the help Mike! I went ahead and ordered a set of CP pads and RF-650. I'll check out some used Solo DLs @villainous_frx mentioned (thanks for that advice too )
__________________
<-- why is this an emote
FeRS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2022, 12:42 AM   #24
CSG Mike
 
CSG Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: S2000 CR
Location: Orange County
Posts: 14,110
Thanks: 8,755
Thanked 13,748 Times in 6,607 Posts
Mentioned: 947 Post(s)
Tagged: 14 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by villainous_frx View Post
Solo2 non-DL is more or less a GPS lap timer, while the DL version is a GPS lap timer as well as a data logger and data output screen (if you'd like, plenty of configurations). Personally, I got a used Solo DL off of ebay for less than 50% the cost of a new Solo2 DL.
Download your data frequently. I've gotten into the habit of downloading every session.

The Solo DL has 16mb, vs the 4gb of a Solo 2 DL.

(guy who owns 4 Solo DLs)
CSG Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Not Another Brake Pads Thread 2022 Edition SlowCarFast Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing 18 03-01-2022 02:19 PM
DIY - Changing Your Brake Pads (Race Pads upgrade) PMok DIY (Do-It-Yourself) Guides 53 09-03-2021 05:17 PM
FS: OEM wheels, HAWK HPS front and rear brake pads, OEM brake pads, TYC colins tails oppiee Canada Classifieds 4 10-07-2019 05:27 PM
Project Mu - Brake Pads, Rotors and Brake Cooling Duct - FREE SHIPPING! eauto Brakes, Suspension, Chassis 255 10-15-2014 01:45 PM
Redline360: Brake Lines, Brake Rotors, Brake Pads for BRZ/FRS Redline360 Brakes, Suspension, Chassis 12 01-05-2013 10:20 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2022 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.