2022 GR86 Premium MT & AT Comparo

[Blighty]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

EXACTLY! And trying to draw a line from age of buyers to age of tranny type based on what an individual's friends drive or a poor assumption is a fools game at best.

It is ironic that many of the "older" people refer to MT as a "standard" because not that long ago the MT was the norm and At was the exotic option. I personally have to make a conscious effort not to call them standards anymore because anybody under the age of 50 or so will just look at you with a blank stare if you use the term.

Its what Toyota and Subarus data indicate though.

That data isn't anecdotal - unlike your own personal experience.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Blighty

Its what Toyota and Subarus data indicate though.

That data isn't anecdotal - unlike your own personal experience.

You still have not shown me one single piece of data that says the majority of AT buyers are 50 or older. You keep saying "data" but have nothing other than your own assumptions based on the age of who buys from what company. This "data" does not in any way indicate the age of who is buying what transmission.
Show me some firm data not assumptions based up a totally different category.
Fact: The data set referenced is that the average age of people that bought the 86 is 52+ while the average age that bought the BRZ is 37+.
Fact: the 86 has a higher AT take than the BRZ.
Fallacy: That this automatically means that older buyers want AT.
Fact: We do not know what the age of the people buying the ATS is as that is not the data provided.

[2020BRZtS]

Originally Posted by Blighty

Its what Toyota and Subarus data indicate though.

That data isn't anecdotal - unlike your own personal experience.

Instead of MT vs AT, let's use colors. The average owner is 52 and 70% of the cars sold are red. Using the same logic you are applying, the over 50 crowd prefers red cars. This conclusion cannot be made with the data provided.

[Ernest72]

Honestly, I heard there were three 100 year olds that bought 86s which brought the average age up.

[86-75309]

The original purchaser of the 2020 86 that I bought used a few months ago was 75 when he bought it. Manual transmission, of course.

[Blighty]

Originally Posted by 2020BRZtS

Instead of MT vs AT, let's use colors. The average owner is 52 and 70% of the cars sold are red. Using the same logic you are applying, the over 50 crowd prefers red cars. This conclusion cannot be made with the data provided.

Um no. Lets use two fruit sellers who both sell red apples in the same market.

Fruit seller A has 50,000 customers who are average of 52, and 70% buy red apples

Fruit seller B has 50,000 customers who are average age 32 and 30% buy red apples.

The apples are the same, or thereabouts, the only real difference is the age.

Like I said, it just makes it more likely that older people drive more automatics. This is not hard.

[Blighty]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

You still have not shown me one single piece of data that says the majority of AT buyers are 50 or older. You keep saying "data" but have nothing other than your own assumptions based on the age of who buys from what company. This "data" does not in any way indicate the age of who is buying what transmission.
Show me some firm data not assumptions based up a totally different category.
Fact: The data set referenced is that the average age of people that bought the 86 is 52+ while the average age that bought the BRZ is 37+.
Fact: the 86 has a higher AT take than the BRZ.
Fallacy: That this automatically means that older buyers want AT.
Fact: We do not know what the age of the people buying the ATS is as that is not the data provided.

Its literally the data from Subaru and Toyota from there total car sales, age, and preference of automatic. Nicely split across two sets that show a key difference.

I'm kinda done explaining it.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Blighty

Its literally the data from Subaru and Toyota from there total car sales, age, and preference of automatic. Nicely split across two sets that show a key difference.

I'm kinda done explaining it.

Show me the tranny preference data by age. Not the age buying each model but actual tranny data.
If I have missed it it is on me. If it doesn't exist then...

You haven't "explained" anything beyond saying "the data says".

[bcj]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I still call acoustic guitars "guitars" and electric guitars electric guitars.

What does one call that interface device from "Guitar Hero"?

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I personally have to make a conscious effort not to call them standards anymore because anybody under the age of 50 or so will just look at you with a blank stare if you use the term.

Standard used to be Three On The Tree for the suburban moms that used a lever to thrash the transmission.
Now it's six on the tree and uses electric switches or none at all for CVT and EV.

[2020BRZtS]

Originally Posted by Blighty

Um no. Lets use two fruit sellers who both sell red apples in the same market.

Fruit seller A has 50,000 customers who are average of 52, and 70% buy red apples

Fruit seller B has 50,000 customers who are average age 32 and 30% buy red apples.

The apples are the same, or thereabouts, the only real difference is the age.

Like I said, it just makes it more likely that older people drive more automatics. This is not hard.

You are right it's not hard. Put simply, you are assuming everyone buys the same amount of apples and the curve is linear. It's not. If 49,999 people buy one green apple and 1 person buys 50,000 red apples the statistic stands but logic does not.

EDIT: I went back and re-read your original statement and retract my comment. I interpreted your comment the same as Tcoat and now I see what you are saying.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by bcj

What does one call that interface device from "Guitar Hero"?

It's a game controller shaped like a guitar. I call it a controller since it's nothing like a guitar.

The drum controller is a bit different. In fact, we have an actual electronic drum kit built by Roland that uses the MIDI out to make it a controller, and has a module that makes it a fully functional drum kit.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Blighty

Um no. Lets use two fruit sellers who both sell red apples in the same market.

Fruit seller A has 50,000 customers who are average of 52, and 70% buy red apples

Fruit seller B has 50,000 customers who are average age 32 and 30% buy red apples.

The apples are the same, or thereabouts, the only real difference is the age.

Like I said, it just makes it more likely that older people drive more automatics. This is not hard.

Let's beat this dead horse one more time....

With only those facts you still don't know how many older persons bought cars, ugm... apples

For example, Fruit seller B may have a very even distribution of ages so there are just as many under 32 as over 32. (25,000 below, 25,000 above)

Fruit Seller A may have a more narrow distribution ( say 25,000 are exactly age 29 and 25,000 are exactly age 75, averaging to 52).

We now have an even split of 50,000 people below age 32 and 50,000 above age 32 even though statistically it looks different. Even then, we don' know what percentage of B are "older" depending on where you put that stake in the ground.

Without the actual age data and split, you really can't be sure. You can make a logical leap either way. Is it likely your assumption is correct? Maybe. Then again mine could be too.

Then there's the whole how skewed things have to be for the average purchaser of a vehicle to be 32. Remember the base isn't 1, it's likely 18, and more like 25 before you get into significant numbers. Less than 1% of cars are purchased by someone under 25 and half the cars in the US are owned by people over the age of 60.

So, in the end, yes, it's possible more older people own AT cars than younger people, because they own more cars than younger people do but even that is a guess without the specific data.

[Blighty]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Let's beat this dead horse one more time....

With only those facts you still don't know how many older persons bought cars, ugm... apples

For example, Fruit seller B may have a very even distribution of ages so there are just as many under 32 as over 32. (25,000 below, 25,000 above)

Fruit Seller A may have a more narrow distribution ( say 25,000 are exactly age 29 and 25,000 are exactly age 75, averaging to 52).

We now have an even split of 50,000 people below age 32 and 50,000 above age 32 even though statistically it looks different. Even then, we don' know what percentage of B are "older" depending on where you put that stake in the ground.

Without the actual age data and split, you really can't be sure. You can make a logical leap either way. Is it likely your assumption is correct? Maybe. Then again mine could be too.

Then there's the whole how skewed things have to be for the average purchaser of a vehicle to be 32. Remember the base isn't 1, it's likely 18, and more like 25 before you get into significant numbers. Less than 1% of cars are purchased by someone under 25 and half the cars in the US are owned by people over the age of 60.

So, in the end, yes, it's possible more older people own AT cars than younger people, because they own more cars than younger people do but even that is a guess without the specific data.

You are not saying anything that new, honestly I took lengths to say that we would need more age breakdowns to add confidence.

But, in all respect, your taking the piss to suggest there your assumption that over such a large data-set a half of those fit into 2 single ages.

Its not just 'possible', its likely given the data. You make the correct point that data can still be skewed by distribution, but that is an irrational distribution.

Edit: And can I say, if anyone is taking the data to heart, it actually SHOWS just how much anyone here of an older age driving a manual is a true *manual* enthusiast, and that they have bucked the likely trend. Its a compliment for all of you here that continue to love and enjoy a manual.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Blighty

And can I say, if anyone is taking the data to heart, it actually SHOWS just how much anyone here of an older age driving a manual is a true enthusiast, and that they have bucked the likely trend. Its a compliment for all of you here that continue to love and enjoy a manual.

You still have not shown this "data" you keep speaking of.

Oh and ironically enough you just indirectly told one of the only older guys on this forum that drives an AT that is is not a "true enthusiast"!