That engine though. Where will it sit among the great 4cyl NA's?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ermax

Maybe a fraction of a second in 1st but where it's really annoying is on the highway (~65mph) when you want to pass. In 6th there is no power, dropping to 5th puts you in the dip and dropping to 4th or 3rd turns it into a boy racer feeling pass. In 5th or 6th the dip last much longer than a fraction of a second.


Casual driving at low speeds in city traffic the low end torque is perfect. The dip doesn't bother me at all in those conditions. I spend 90% of my time on the interstate running between 65mph - 95mph so that is where it's annoying. Obviously none of this is an issue in racing conditions where you can keep it above the dip.


E85 cures it enough that it doesn't really bother me anymore.

So do I and not once has it impacted my highway driving since even a downshift you pass through it in a fraction of a second. It isn't like you have zero torque like everybody would like to think.

[Blighty]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

You do realize that the whole thread was based on exactly that belief!

Christ you are such a troll. Or an fool, I'm not sure.

So not only was that NOT the case (who think ANY dyno is anything but a STATIC image?), I literally told you explicitly we know its not dynamic data. I mean everyone knows that.

I've been trying to be good humored about you, but honestly mate - get a grip.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Blighty

Christ you are such a troll. Or an fool, I'm not sure.

So not only was that NOT the case (who think ANY dyno is anything but a STATIC image?), I literally told you explicitly we know its not dynamic data. I mean everyone knows that.

I've been trying to be good humored about you, but honestly mate - get a grip.

Yep anybody that doesn't see it your way must be a troll or a fool.
I will wait and see what the reality of this engine is and not base my judgement upon two numbers and a best case scenario graph.

You can carry on with your good golly gee bestest engine ever daydream.

[Blighty]

Originally Posted by chipmunk

Gosh, why did I watch this video!? I had never noticed the front license plate mount, incoherent fascia lines, etc. before! Now I can't unsee them! Duck wing was the only thing that bothered me before.

Hopefully they'll change a few things before mass production after looking at public response. Or maybe a tS version or 2026 facelift might solve them!

I think if you don't like it, the only chance it you might have is when you see it in the flesh. The Toyota will have a different front end, but I imagine the back end will be the same.

I cant see it changing. I'm not sure any cars have in the past from this point, but I don't follow every cars release.

There is half a possibility that we wont get a revision - governments (including the US) are working on a new standard for 2025 (EU, UK both do, then UK goes completely electric in 2030. Added to that the US now has a left wing party in power, so its probably going to remove that hold trump put on California at the very least.

So yeah, get em while you can, put on a body kit if you don't like it in the flesh.

[Blighty]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Yep anybody that doesn't see it your way must be a troll or a fool.
I will wait and see what the reality of this engine is and not base my judgement upon two numbers and a best case scenario graph.

You can carry on with your good golly gee bestest engine ever daydream.

You can have whatever opinion on the engine you like, but when you start accusing this whole thread being based on some kind of dynamic dyno, then that's just factually false.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Blighty

You can have whatever opinion on the engine you like, but when you start accusing this whole thread being based on some kind of dynamic dyno, then that's just factually false.

You have nothing but "bench raced" in this whole thread.

In your opinion the FA is one of the greatest 4cyl based on what? You haven't established any criteria that is coherent. You push it you break it even with just bolt on's and a tune. It does not respond that great to NA mods. It's not extraordinarily reliable by any means. It is a NIGHTMARE to work on.

Establish some criteria and work from there or present something meaningful. As far as I can tell you have very little experience with engines period. If you want to compare stock for stock driving it on the street, yeah it is pretty decent. Outside of that it is meh.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Blighty

You can have whatever opinion on the engine you like, but when you start accusing this whole thread being based on some kind of dynamic dyno, then that's just factually false.

LOL all of a sudden you want to deal it facts?

[Blighty]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

You have nothing but "bench raced" in this whole thread.

In your opinion the FA is one of the greatest 4cyl based on what? You haven't established any criteria that is coherent. You push it you break it even with just bolt on's and a tune. It does not respond that great to NA mods. It's not extraordinarily reliable by any means. It is a NIGHTMARE to work on.

Establish some criteria and work from there or present something meaningful. As far as I can tell you have very little experience with engines period. If you want to compare stock for stock driving it on the street, yeah it is pretty decent. Outside of that it is meh.

You know what is in the title of the post "Where will it sit among the great 4cyl NA's?"

I'm asking a question right. You understand what the difference is yeah.

Typical to find people trying to flex on their ability to pull apart an engine - good for you and if your trying to make me feel like my opinion on it isn't as good as yours then I got a one finger salute for you.

"bench racing" is all we can do mate. I am only giving you the facts about those numbers, and those numbers put right in that mix of those 4cyl engines that are widely considered as the greatest, and the torque curve looks mighty impressive against what those other engine in the past have done.

Keep flexing buddy, your a real winner.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Blighty

You know what is in the title of the post "Where will it sit among the great 4cyl NA's?"

I'm asking a question right. You understand what the difference is yeah.

Typical to find people trying to flex on their ability to pull apart an engine - good for you and if your trying to make me feel like my opinion on it isn't as good as yours then I got a one finger salute for you.

"bench racing" is all we can do mate. I am only giving you the facts about those numbers, and those numbers put right in that mix of those 4cyl engines that are widely considered as the greatest, and the torque curve looks mighty impressive against what those other engine in the past have done.

Keep flexing buddy, your a real winner.

Where is a facepalm emoji. When you want to learn you read information that challenges your own ideas. Or you live in an echo chamber(we were just talking about this in another thread lol ) and stay stagnant.

"bench racing" is all we can do mate.

Seriously, the FA platform has been out for 8 years. We have tons of experience to go off of. That is what I have been trying to point you at for how long now.

[Blighty]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Where is a facepalm emoji. When you want to learn you read information that challenges your own ideas. Or you live in an echo chamber(we were just talking about this in another thread lol ) and stay stagnant.

Oh, so you want to try take the high road now after flexing on me, and instead accuse me of being insular and forming an echo chamber - right.

What information is challenging my ideas that I haven't been reading or discussing constructively?

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Seriously, the FA platform has been out for 8 years. We have tons of experience to go off of. That is what I have been trying to point you at for how long now.

And how was my conversations with you any way shape or form not constructive or seemed to disregard what you are saying? We had a chat, I understood your point of view, and we know its a new engine with potential fixes like all engines do over time, and its only a matter of opinion if it has the same issues.

So again, where is the echo chamber?

[Irace86.2.0]

The best four cylinder of all time was the Fiat S76 aka the Beast of Turin with a 28.5L engine.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Seriously, the FA platform has been out for 8 years. We have tons of experience to go off of. That is what I have been trying to point you at for how long now.

For sure the FA20 is an absolute bitch to work on and that nightmare will continue with the FA24. The biggest issue with the FA20 was oil pressure and who really knows if the FA24 will continue that trend. There have been plenty of threads where people have come up with their own solutions by changing the pickup tube and drilling a hole here and there. The high compression pistons will limit bolt on FI options but the pistons could be swapped, possibly with the ones from the truck. Not being FI friendly doesn’t really cross it off the list as a great engine though.

I totally agree that the FA20 isn’t even in my top 10 greatest engines. But we aren’t talking about the FA20. Going off limited info and a “STATIC” best case low res and smoothed dyno it looks like the power band is much better. This reminds me a lot of the AP1 vs AP2. Peek didn’t go up and redline dropped a little (because they stroked it for the extra displacement) which had people bitching but after driving both it was clear that the AP2 had the edge.

All we can do right now is dream and I see nothing wrong with that. I see nothing wrong with getting hopes high over a static, overly smoothed dyno in optimal conditions at the crank vs another static, overly smoothed dyno in optimal conditions at the crank.

Thinking someone was arguing that the image on the dash was live data is either an extreme reading comprehension problem or flat out trolling. I’m going with trolling because I know Tcot isn’t a dummy but loves an argument.

[NoHaveMSG]

I am on the same page as far as not knowing exactly what the new variant of the FA24 will bring and you add a lot of great points @ermax. I guess the real point I am trying to bring to light with the OP is that there are other things besides technical specs and dyno charts that make an engine great or not so great and my best example of that is the current engine.

I think beefing up the midrange and lowering the redline is a good direction as far as reducing the oil pressure issue but it really doesn't fix the problem. In the lifetime of our little FA20D and the updates it got, the DIT oil pump was never one of them and that is something I never understood. They updated rocker arm geometry so they knew that was a problem, they have to have known that we are on forums bitching about lack of oil pressure. Things like that contribute to my skepticism of the new engine.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Fiat S.76
The fastest vehicle on earth in 1911
28 liters
NA
290HP but could probably get more with a header and CAI

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

The best four cylinder of all time was the Fiat S76 aka the Beast of Turin with a 28.5L engine.

You are 6 pages late.