Transmission Output Shaft Seal Leaking

[Stevedave]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Safe money's on the gear selector seal. Nothing else really moves. I was just musing over other possible leaky points. I had to replace a failed check on a different beloved shitbox many years ago. I think soundman's right. Rear seal looks ok.

I appreciate your input. Soundman98, that goes to you as well.
Just to be clear, the rear main seal you’re both referring to is the output shaft seal that’s been replaced twice?

I’m curious as to why the shop replaced it twice and had nothing else to say. Surely, this isn’t anything special or different from other RWD cars? Or am I missing something?

What was the sh*tbox you’re referring to?


Is the gear selector seal a difficult or costly job?

Here is the seal I provided to the shop on the last visit.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Stevedave

Ok. Since it’s been cleaned off twice, the seal replaced twice and doing this since I got the car in April, I’m thinking I’ll take it to the free follow up inspection on Wednesday. See what the shop has to say. I’ll ask to look at it while it’s on the lift and take some pics.

Would you still recommend not going forward with anything other than having the tech clean it all up?
Anything I should specifically mention to the tech while it’s there? I don’t want to be a jerk, but maybe asking if they’re cleaning everything up, not just around the seal.

It’s frustrating as my mechanic of 20+ years retired and I’m having a hard time finding a good shop in my area. A few people in the car community has said this shop is decent. So, I’d like to tread lightly.

i know the feeling. i try to keep to friends and siblings for work i can't perform, but with them getting busier with life, i have fewer places to turn to for work i can't do... it's really hard to find a good trustworthy shop anywhere.


this is my own talk of the 'reality check': the seal has been replaced twice, in less than 200k miles. which gives me major hesitancy to simply getting another one. that seal should be something that lasts the majority of the cars lifespan. it generally breaks down from age more than mileage, and we're not seeing others needing to replace it at all, with many cars in a similar mileage range. the fact that it's been replaced 2, and a recommended third time. something is off here.

it really comes down to 3 options.
A; it's not where the problem is, but appears to be due to the way the oil is flowing down the side of the transmission from driving the car.
B; the seal is a symptom, and the solution is a much more major shaft/transmission housing issue.
C; it really is a seal, and someone bumbleheaded the 2nd seal installation to cause a leak. it happens all the time, even in official factory-certified shops.

i don't like suggesting throwing parts at something like the transmission, because none of it is easy to access, and you're not performing the work yourself. if we were discussing a brake pad squeal, which just involves pulling a wheel and caliper to change, it would be much easier to recommend trying something different.

at this point, i'd really recommend cleaning as much of the transmission off as possible(brake cleaner is faster, or engine degreaser is the 'proper way'), then checking it within hours afterwards, and then follow up daily--whether the car is driven or not.

the earliest i would anticipate having any work performed would be 1 week later, assuming the leak continues and shows itself.

personally if were my car, i would jack up the car monday night, grab 5-6 cans of brake cleaner, some rags, and a face shield. i'd clean off as much as i could of the transmission. then tuesday morning and night i'd crawl back under and check it. same with wednesday morning--if the leak shows itself before that point, the appointment would be worth keeping. but if it doesn't, it'd be worth cancelling the appointment for a later date if/when the leak starts showing itself again, though i'd continue checking under the car for the rest of the week, and then slowly longer intervals until i'm confident that it really could've been a one-time overfill event--it does happen.

[Ultramaroon]

Don't throw parts at it. That's the most inefficient, least successful way to try to fix anything. Here are a couple pics of my original transmission. I think the stain on mine is only from the grease melted off of the shift lever retainer bushings, and shift lever pins.

[Stevedave]

The leak has gotten worse. It’s never dripped this much since I’ve had it. It hasn’t been driven since Friday 8/18. I’ve had to start it up to switch spots in the driveway twice since then.
I got up to move it this morning before work and was greeted with a new spot.
It’s all fresh as I had parked on clean concrete.

Thanks for all of the advice. Temps are around 100 today without the heat index. I’ll figure out if I’m going to have the time and patience to lift it up and clean the transmission after work. Feeling kinda frustrated at this point.

[Stevedave]

I took it into the shop today. I requested to look at it as soon as it was on the lift. The shop manager, tech and I had a discussion about it and they walked me through everything during the inspection. There’s no signs of leaking from the output shaft seal or anywhere else on the transmission. The tech mentioned he checked the gear selector seal last time, didn’t see any signs of leakage, and inspected it today and didn’t see any signs of leaking. He mentioned when the last seal was installed, there was transmission fluid that looked like it had splattered out in a circular motion. I asked if the gear selector seal could have an intermittent leak, and he said no. He said the driveshaft doesn’t appear bent. But, it sounds like one can’t rely on a visual inspection alone. However, he mentioned not feeling any vibration when he road tested it the last two times, so his best guess was no bend in the driveshaft.

I showed them the pics of the leaks on the driveway and they were at a loss. They said if I notice anything new or want to bring it back in a week or whenever they'll do another free inspection. I expressed that I don’t feel comfortable driving it, and they said there wasn’t any reason to not drive it.

I asked if it could be the output shaft bearing, the tech said they don’t do transmission work so he couldn’t verify. I expressed wanting peace of mind and he politely suggested taking it to a transmission shop, but doesn’t think it’s necessary.

Here are a couple pics I took during the inspection.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Stevedave

There’s no signs of leaking from the output shaft seal or anywhere else on the transmission.

then the big question becomes "where are the driveway spots coming from?"

on one hand, i'm happy to hear you're working with a shop that's willing to not just throw money at the problem.

on the other, no sign of any leak only makes this more difficult...

[Ultramaroon]

Wait a minute. Why does the u-joint look clean in the first picture, and dripping with oil in the second?

[Stevedave]

Originally Posted by soundman98

then the big question becomes "where are the driveway spots coming from?"


on the other, no sign of any leak only makes this more difficult...

I’m really confused. I showed them a side profile picture of the car parked in the driveway as a reference to show how the oil spots line up with the car. I always line the car up the same no matter which side it gets parked on.

It’s 100% without a doubt coming from the FRS. Concrete is fairly new and clean. I always check it for spots. Now that I have 3, I'll be cleaning them this weekend.

Perhaps the next step is finding a reputable transmission shop? Maybe they’ll be able to see something this shop is missing?

[Stevedave]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Wait a minute. Why does the u-joint look clean in the first picture, and dripping with oil in the second?

Lighting? The first pic the tech was shining his flashlight. Second pic is no lighting and no flash from my phone. All the paint splatter isn’t helping either.

During the inspection I touched a few spots that I thought looked wet. Negative on that.

Im almost tempted to contact the previous owner and ask for any input. He did tell me to feel free to reach out with any questions.

Is that gap anything to be concerned about?

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Stevedave

Lighting?

Got it. It did throw me.

Is that gap anything to be concerned about?

No. It's just to keep objects from jamming into the actual seal.

[blsfrs]

Dap your finger in to spot and take a whiff. Gear oil will usually smell like pine or cedar. Motor oil will smell like vasoline.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Stevedave

Is that gap anything to be concerned about?

nope, that gap is where there ought to be fluid leaking out if the output shaft seal was bad.

[Stevedave]

blsfrs, it definitely smells like gear oil.

I went to clean the 3 spots in the driveway, but the rain took care of the two smaller ones. I’ve driven the car 3 times since Friday and no leaks on the concrete. I’ll continue to monitor.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Stevedave

blsfrs, it definitely smells like gear oil.

I went to clean the 3 spots in the driveway, but the rain took care of the two smaller ones. I’ve driven the car 3 times since Friday and no leaks on the concrete. I’ll continue to monitor.

it wouldn't be condensation from running the a/c would it?

because speaking from experience, rain does not normally remove transmission fluid, or engine oil stains. at least anything less than torrential downpours resulting in at least 5-6" total rainfalls in less than 2 hours...