Potential protest impacts of avoiding valve spring recall?

[xjohnx]

Since Subaru has identified the valve springs as being out of spec/manufacturers tolerances on a certain subset of 86s, I thought of an interesting hypothetical.

If someone opted not to have that recall performed for whatever reason and was running stock class at a SCCA national event, what are the chances of a mechanical protest succeeding on a technicality?

[ka-t_240]

Originally Posted by xjohnx

Since Subaru has identified the valve springs as being out of spec/manufacturers tolerances on a certain subset of 86s, I thought of an interesting hypothetical.

If someone opted not to have that recall performed for whatever reason and was running at a national event, what are the chances of a mechanical protest succeeding on a technicality?

Zero. There is no way to prove the recall was done. There is also no "advantage" to having the old springs. They are just more prone to being weak/breaking. Not like the cars with recall done would be down HP.

That would be like saying, my friend with a 13 BRZ that is in the recall population but alread blew one up, could be challanged because he has a motor out of a non recall car.

[xjohnx]

Originally Posted by ka-t_240

Zero. There is no way to prove the recall was done. There is also no "advantage" to having the old springs. They are just more prone to being weak/breaking. Not like the cars with recall done would be down HP.

That would be like saying, my friend with a 13 BRZ that is in the recall population but alread blew one up, could be challanged because he has a motor out of a non recall car.

Do the rules require someone being able to prove there is an advantage gained by using non-spec parts? I thought it simply had to prove the presence of non-spec parts. As far as proof goes, I am under the impression that when someone files a mechanical protest, a teardown would be performed at impound once the appropriate protest fees are paid.

The update/backdate rule covers your second scenario.

[xjohnx]

Found this in the SCCA rulebook, for what it is worth.

[ermax]

They actually changed the spec mid 2014 (or somewhere around there) so any cars built after that would have the same springs you get on the recall anyways. There is no performance difference between the springs.

[ka-t_240]

Originally Posted by xjohnx

Do the rules require someone being able to prove there is an advantage gained by using non-spec parts? I thought it simply had to prove the presence of non-spec parts. As far as proof goes, I am under the impression that when someone files a mechanical protest, a teardown would be performed at impound once the appropriate protest fees are paid.

The update/backdate rule covers your second scenario.

For SCCA Up/Back doesn't classify for "street" class does it?

Also - There is no way they would be pulling an engine at a SOLO event for protest. Once apart, I doubt they would even be able to know what spring is what. I haven't had FA apart, but I don't think the springs have part # on them. If they really wanted to know, you could check recall status on a SN # vs pulling an engine.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by ka-t_240

For SCCA Up/Back doesn't classify for "street" class does it?

Also - There is no way they would be pulling an engine at a SOLO event for protest. Once apart, I doubt they would even be able to know what spring is what. I haven't had FA apart, but I don't think the springs have part # on them. If they really wanted to know, you could check recall status on a SN # vs pulling an engine.

The new springs are painted on the end though.

[Dadhawk]

1. How would anyone know you did or didn't have the work done?
2. @xjohnx are you saying that if you participate in a sanctioned event with your street car you have to allow a teardown of the car in the case of protest? I don't do these events but that seems like a pretty huge deterrent for a non-dedicated race vehicle. It's not like it's Formula 1 or NASCAR.

[steverife]

You aren't required to replace every superseded part.

[steverife]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

1. How would anyone know you did or didn't have the work done?
2. @xjohnx are you saying that if you participate in a sanctioned event with your street car you have to allow a teardown of the car in the case of protest? I don't do these events but that seems like a pretty huge deterrent for a non-dedicated race vehicle. It's not like it's Formula 1 or NASCAR.

For a national event, there is a protest process. If the protestor wants to tear down someone's engine, a pretty significant bond is required (think shop time rates for disassemble/reassemble). If they are wrong, they lose that money. The protested party could simply refuse, but of course, you lose the protest.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by steverife

For a national event, there is a protest process. If the protestor wants to tear down someone's engine, a pretty significant bond is required (think shop time rates for disassemble/reassemble). If they are wrong, they lose that money. The protested party could simply refuse, but of course, you lose the protest.

OK, makes sense, as long as you have the option to refuse. I mean, folks are concerned about qualified Toyota/Subaru techs doing this tear down, what must they think in that type of situation!

[PointDSM]

I can't wait to see the top 10 for Nationals in SCC all be 2013's, that will put the Sawyer National Course controversy to shame.

[xjohnx]

Originally Posted by PointDSM

I can't wait to see the top 10 for Nationals in SCC all be 2013's, that will put the Sawyer National Course controversy to shame.

I mean, going by the letter of the law of the recall provision posted above, they'd have a pretty good argument (I guess it depends on whether anything out of OEM spec fails or if it actually has to give a performance advantage, but in that case, who would be the judge?)

You KNOW autocrossers love technicalities.

[cjd]

If it's a mandatory recall, the grounds exist for such a protest. If it's not mandatory, then no grounds. As noted, it's in the rulebook.


I simply don't know if the recall is mandatory 'cause I haven't paid enough attention