follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Speed By Design
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > 2nd Gens: GR86 and BRZ > BRZ Second-Gen (2022+) -- General Topics

BRZ Second-Gen (2022+) -- General Topics General topics for the second-gen BRZ


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-02-2021, 01:43 PM   #57
stilesg57
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Drives: Shopping Mustang GTs and BRZs/86s
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 92
Thanks: 178
Thanked 50 Times in 34 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
There’s so much excusing in this thread. Here’s the only polishing I can do on this turd of a development:

Location of the dip and gearing matter A LOT. I don’t much care what this kind of engine is doing below 4k because I would never drive it there when I want power. Bottom half of the tach is for steady-state cruising IMO. The problem with the old car wasn’t just that there WAS a dip on an already underpowered motor, it’s that there was too broad of a band just below redline where an upshift would drop you right into it.

The fact that the new one has a dip sucks, and I’m not going to excuse it just because I like the rest of the package (at least in theory). But it does look like the dip is at least earlier in the rev range. As a thought experiment: if the new dip it 3x as deep but it’s from 2.5k-4k I’d be annoyed but ok with it…as long as a shift around the 6.5k range doesn’t drop me right into the valley of it. It looks like maybe that’s addressed, which is a decent balm on this burn.
stilesg57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2021, 01:48 PM   #58
OwlDance
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Drives: Halo 86, '19
Location: NY
Posts: 120
Thanks: 88
Thanked 95 Times in 48 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox View Post
That's because they are almost always on a track.

On the street, in say third gear needing to accelerate, you could always feel it fall flat on it face for a few then pick back up noticeably.
Well maybe it's just the way I drive (maybe I'm just a luddite) but I always lean into my accelerator and I don't floor it until I'm somewhat into the RPMs (4k min +) to preserve the engine/prevent torque shock or w/e, so the dip to me feels like I'm asking for more power gradually before it suddenly spikes past 5kRPM.

The powerband still continues to rise in the dip so you're still getting more power regardless of torque dip. To actually feel the rise to 3k then drop to 4k it's kind of like lugging the car a bit IMHO, where it'd just be easier on most of the components to lean in or downshift.

I'd argue on the track where if one were on the track demanding full power down as much as possible, you'd notice it more as you demand a bunch from 4k but not get that demanded power (I guarantee most reviewers aren't always keeping the car at the highest RPMs constantly). On the daily road, I've literally never had a problem with the torque dip, considering my last car had less HP and was heavier. But that's just me. I still think it's a very overblown issue that people only find as a problem because of number theory/oggling dynos over real world stuff. Yes, the dip can be annoying depending on how you drive but it's far from making the car "gutless" IMHO. IIRC our dip isn't any worse than what the S2000 makes until VTEC kicks in lol.
OwlDance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2021, 02:18 PM   #59
CincyJohn
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Drives: 2022 MT Neptune GR86 Prem.
Location: Cincinnati, OHIO
Posts: 492
Thanks: 143
Thanked 315 Times in 199 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by trippinbillies40 View Post
Actual image of CincyJohn hitting the torque dip while gently accelerating.

Pretty sure that actually happened to me once.
CincyJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to CincyJohn For This Useful Post:
DriveDriftDogfight86 (10-03-2021)
Old 09-02-2021, 02:23 PM   #60
CincyJohn
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Drives: 2022 MT Neptune GR86 Prem.
Location: Cincinnati, OHIO
Posts: 492
Thanks: 143
Thanked 315 Times in 199 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzmitry View Post
The one neat thing with the dip, I always thought, was the acceleration you would feel right as the torque starts to rise again, because at this point the power began to rise much quicker than at any other point in the powerband.
I said it myself, it was like getting all of the negatives of a turbo spool with none of the advantages. Specifically, on at least the last two cars I have owned, both V6 biturbos (2001 S4, 2008 335i coupe), you would be accelerating and then the turbos would spool and whooshh... you were really off.

On this car stock, you accelerate fine to start and then you go WTF!!! for a few seconds and then ho, hum you are back to where you should have been to begin with.

And for the record, I have never driven it on a track and have no plans to. However, I do like to accelerate quickly when called for (and even when not, but safe) and toss it around (same). I have gradually taught myself to shift later than I used to because even on OFT/headers/e85 it still needs to be running in the +4k range to really feel like you are getting the most out of the motor. Not gonna lie, though, sometimes I am cruising at 65 on the highway in 6th and forget to downshift to pass and I pay for it whereas my last two cars would just go .5 second of spooling and off!

Not complaining - I purchased this car with my eyes open and I love lots of things about it - and I still may go FI at some point in time (or just upgrade to a 2022+ instead if header/tune/e85 get me where I need/want to go).

Last edited by CincyJohn; 09-02-2021 at 02:40 PM.
CincyJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2021, 02:36 PM   #61
OkieSnuffBox
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Drives: '23 BRZ Limited
Location: OKC, OK
Posts: 1,984
Thanks: 659
Thanked 1,228 Times in 701 Posts
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlDance View Post

I'd argue on the track where if one were on the track demanding full power down as much as possible,
No, because you don't let the revs drop that low.
OkieSnuffBox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2021, 03:18 PM   #62
FlyingJett
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Drives: Scion frs
Location: Latvia
Posts: 26
Thanks: 11
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blighty View Post
If you want AWD then for sure!, although it might be worth waiting for the new WRX and STI to compare.

But do you really want AWD?
I just don't want to port a head, install headers and midpipe, find a proper tuner that can tune your car over internet and so on again
Actually, I have driven GR Yaris (it is available in our country) - it felt very good. As my tuned Scion FRS but more powerful in a midrange
But the driving position is awfull (for me).

You have this f*cking multimedia system in center of panel and mirror.

And it felt like you are sitting on top of wheels in some horse cart

Maybe I will wait 2-3 years for some used gr86/brz and spend money on tuning.
FlyingJett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2021, 03:31 PM   #63
OwlDance
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Drives: Halo 86, '19
Location: NY
Posts: 120
Thanks: 88
Thanked 95 Times in 48 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox View Post
No, because you don't let the revs drop that low.

Well this is quickly devolving into internet shitposting, track driving and your statement doesn't exist in a vacuum in practice.

I've seen more than a dozen videos of people who'll drop well into the torque dip because it's faster to not downshift on certain technical areas of the track, not to mention that every driver is different. From the nordschleife to regular tracks. That's the last I'll say on this silly notion.
OwlDance is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to OwlDance For This Useful Post:
NoHaveMSG (09-02-2021)
Old 09-02-2021, 03:53 PM   #64
Lantanafrs2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: 2013 frs red
Location: South Florida
Posts: 3,517
Thanks: 2,520
Thanked 3,088 Times in 1,654 Posts
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
I still think that graph is compressed and we're getting upset over nothing
Lantanafrs2 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Lantanafrs2 For This Useful Post:
OkieSnuffBox (09-02-2021), OwlDance (09-02-2021)
Old 09-02-2021, 04:16 PM   #65
slimfit
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Drives: ‘22 BRZ
Location: Delco, PA
Posts: 84
Thanks: 127
Thanked 47 Times in 25 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
There’s a guy on NASIOC that made a better graph using HP/Torque from the graph on the YouTube video. It really didn’t look that bad. Here’s the link.

https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho...postcount=1043
slimfit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2021, 04:24 PM   #66
Kona61
Senior Member
 
Kona61's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Drives: ‘22 CWP
Location: SoCal
Posts: 261
Thanks: 156
Thanked 242 Times in 108 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by slimfit View Post
There’s a guy on NASIOC that made a better graph using HP/Torque from the graph on the YouTube video. It really didn’t look that bad. Here’s the link.

https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho...postcount=1043
Here is a pic of it.

Also would like to point out that yet again, the graph doesn’t start at zero which makes the dip look bigger…
Attached Images
 
Kona61 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Kona61 For This Useful Post:
slimfit (09-02-2021)
Old 09-02-2021, 04:33 PM   #67
Pete
Senior Member
 
Pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Drives: 22 BRZ
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 615
Thanks: 1,341
Thanked 478 Times in 230 Posts
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kona61 View Post
Here is a pic of it.
That doesn't look great, but it does look a little better than the 1st gen car. It looks like there is a little bump at the first half of the 1st gen torque tip instead of cratering right away.

I can't wait for headers and I don't even have the car yet.

Again I have to say that it doesn't look like the dash graph at all, but still not a deal breaker. I am currently planning to get a WRB BRZ limited manual.
__________________
2013 FRS -> 2011 CTS-V -> 2006 Cayman S -> 2015 GTI -> 2022 BRZ

Last edited by Pete; 09-02-2021 at 04:54 PM.
Pete is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Pete For This Useful Post:
stilesg57 (09-02-2021)
Old 09-02-2021, 05:08 PM   #68
ichitaka05
Site Moderator
 
ichitaka05's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Drives: ichi 86 Project
Location: Middle of No where
Posts: 20,961
Thanks: 7,661
Thanked 19,046 Times in 8,323 Posts
Mentioned: 676 Post(s)
Tagged: 27 Thread(s)
All Subie NA engine had tq dip (including EG & EZ), so I wasn't expecting anything different from FA24. When some journalist claiming tq dip was gone, I wanted to call BS... but didn't wanna say til I saw the dyno first.

For track-geeks who's revving only at the top won't feel much difference (other than lil more power). For autox'ers, they'll feel fraction less dip at the tq dip.

Either way, it'll be a good area aftermarket companies can tackle.
__________________
ichitaka05 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ichitaka05 For This Useful Post:
Pete (09-02-2021)
Old 09-02-2021, 05:50 PM   #69
FlyingJett
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Drives: Scion frs
Location: Latvia
Posts: 26
Thanks: 11
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Still the same dip from 3200 to 4500.

They advertised that peak is from 3700 .. But actually peak of torque is at 3000 and then it fall down

Wtf?
FlyingJett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2021, 06:00 PM   #70
Lantanafrs2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: 2013 frs red
Location: South Florida
Posts: 3,517
Thanks: 2,520
Thanked 3,088 Times in 1,654 Posts
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Omg its horrible. I'll never buy one!
Lantanafrs2 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Typical Mustang Dyno Numbers? Rockz222 Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 6 07-11-2015 08:33 PM
Dyno numbers ogrowup Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 7 12-27-2014 08:04 AM
Average Stock Dyno Numbers? KONVERTER Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 23 10-12-2013 10:13 PM
Dyno numbers list from Evasive Motorsports Meet/Dyno Fish Southern California 29 02-24-2013 03:16 AM
dyno numbers seem low stealth_fighter Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum 9 02-02-2013 09:01 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.