"Bumping" on track days?

[dem00n]

How common is it for a driver behind you to bump you on a track day (non competitive) while braking, etc?

If so it is considered an "accident" (If there is damage) which has to be handled by the two drivers?

Tried to do some research, didn't find much on this.

Thanks.

[CSG Mike]

It shouldn't be happening at all, but it does happen sometimes.

Typically you sign waivers indemnifying all parties at the track, but how these waivers hold up in court... who knows. Typically it's a "everyone acknowledges the risk and are responsible for their own repairs".

If the driver doesn't own the car, I consider the driver responsible for any damages caused to the car unless it was specifically agreed upon that the driver is NOT responsible (e.g. a hired driver driving a shop car, etc.)

[rice_classic]

In all the schools I've attend, at all the ones I've instructed with and at all the lapping days, test days, HPDE's etc that I've been to...

If you make contact with another car (in that manner), you will removed from the track immediately with an invitation to not return. You will not be refunded any of your entry fee either. There is absolutely, 0 excuse for that. Many organizations will go as far as permanently excluding you from running with them.

Most insurance companies do not cover any damage in this environment so drivers should have a huge motivation to not do this, there is NO racing going and no organization wants to have their reputation tarnished by being known as an entity that allows this behavior, also many risk loosing their business insurer if this behavior is known to be allowed. If that happens then the whole program gets shut down. No insurer for the organization=no longer in business. You cannot operate at the track without an insurer, at least not around here.

I personally wouldn't set foot on track with any organization (outside of w2w racing) that would bare one iota of tolerance to this. There should be no "heroes" at a track day.

[DarkSunrise]

I haven't seen any bumping in the track days I've been to. The closest experience I've had personally was when I was following behind an older Porsche. I had been keeping my distance a bit, but my instructor wanted me to setup for a pass and tuck behind his bumper two turns before the back straight. When I did, the Porsche driver must have felt some pressure because he overcooked the throttle exiting the next corner and almost lost his back end, fishtailing a bit. I was about five feet off his bumper and immediately got on my brakes so it was fine, but it could have been a close call if he had spun.

I don't think any party was at fault other than, generally speaking, drivers who never offer point-by's (and the Porsche driver quickly gave me the point-by on the straight so he was fine), but these are the kind of situations that can come up at track days.

[ZDan]

Over the past 14 years with COMSCC (driver school/time trials 2-day events) I've seen only one such incident, between a brother and sister in their dedicated track cars, minimal damage. Plenty of single-car incidents over the years, including myself...
Well-run HPDE events should pretty much never see multi-car incidents!

[smbstyle]

I've only heard of two incidents of car to car contact in HPDE; and in those cases, the matter was settled between the two drivers, with the at-fault driver covering the other driver's damages out of courtesy.

Very rare occurrence though.

[CSG Mike]

I've seen a few contacts, and they were all handled by each owner for their own car, except in one case.

In that case, one driver attempted to sue the other driver. The driver that attempted to sue ended up paying for both cars...

[Anthonytpt]

Assumption of the risk is a defense in tort law which bars or reduces plaintiff's right to recovery against a negligent party if the defendant can demonstrate that plaintiff voluntarily and knowingly assumed the risk at issue inherent to the dangerous activity in which he was participating at the time of his injury.

@dem00n: Looks like you're from New York, a jurisdiction that holds the assumption of the risk doctrine should only be used to further the public policy goal of encouraging participation in sports and other recreational activities.

[WolfpackS2k]

I've seen it once, but occurrences are VERY rare and as others have said, absolutely not tolerated. The one I witnessed occurred due to miscommunication about a car's position. One driver thought the other driver was going down onto the apron to go into the pits. However the other guy was not going into the pits. They ended up touching, side by side, over 100 mph. Thankfully no control was lost and there was just minor fender damage to both cars (986 Boxster S and 1969 Camaro Z28).

[canu_50]

I've seen it once also.. A beginner that was moved up the rank to fast.. He doubled brake going into the corner (brake, let go and brake again). Guy in the Porsche behind him, hit the bumper , small dent only on the RS4 and nothing on the porsche.

They splitted half and half on that day.

[mrk1]

My M3 has a scuff from someone else hitting a cone and it coming back and hitting my car. Guy approached me after and offered to take care of it, I could care less so it was just a hand shake and we where on our way.

Just another reason to have a designated track car, it will wear the track scars well

[Kimsey47]

Surprised no one went here yet...

[Stevo22]

I got the shit scared out of me in the Novice group at my first track day. I had two guys behind me E36 M3 and an Audi TT behind him on slicks. They were not pushing me, but I knew they were back there. Going into turn one where you carry the most speed at AMP, I making my turn in after braking and then hear screeching tires and see the M3 go off track in my mirror. My friend talked to the kid (he was in his teens with his family there and his dad had another M3 he was tracking) and he said he was trying to threshold brake (his car did not have ABS) and locked it up. The Audi did not hit him, but it was close (this is what the Audi driver and his instructor told me). He was probably pushing the kid since he was the fastest driver in our run group. If he was not on slicks it might have ended bad.

I was told he was not close to me, but it scared me that someone could just run into the back end of me if they did not brake adequately.

[canu_50]

Usually slicks make it worst!!

I have a lot of newbie that comes to my shop with Porsche 997GT3 and others, and they all want slick, because they can afford it, and people tell them this is the way to do lapping.

Thing they don't know, slick won't squeal, slick won't tell you when they have no more traction. You know it, because you are off track at this point!

They are the one that pushes too much, without knowing the limit of the car, the tires, and certainly not their!!

When you are on street tire, the speed and the way tire react, make it easier for people to get out of trouble!