Ace 4-2-1 Header

[-Phil]

Originally Posted by MaximeT

I know, but they know nothing about this specific header. And Delicious was in the development process...

It seems as if you've been drinking a lot of a certain Kool-aid. The major player in tuning a car after installing a header is exhaust cam timing. For you to think a specific tune can rain supreme over all others is not only incorrect but shows that misinformation is indeed being spread.

[MaximeT]

Originally Posted by Moto-Phil

It seems as if you've been drinking a lot of a certain Kool-aid. The major player in tuning a car after installing a header is exhaust cam timing. For you to think a specific tune can rain supreme over all others is not only incorrect but shows that misinformation is indeed being spread.

I guess that's why the ACE racecar win races with a Delicious tune without being on the same continent.

[-Phil]

Originally Posted by MaximeT

I guess that's why the ACE racecar win races with a Delicious tune without being on the same continent.

Again to that i would say please refer to my previous comment. Anyway the offer to have a car with an ace header be tuned by delicious and put on our dyno has been extended. Proof is in the results however it seems non biased dyno's do not count for you.

[Lantana frs]

Unfortunately the results appear to be on par with an untuned budget header. Under the curve looks better but a little choppy for a tuned car.

[GT86meMR2]

Its not that these numbers look low for the Ace header, these numbers just look bad in general for a catless header compared to stock one.. Ace or not.

[shiftspark]

Originally Posted by DeaconRoc

Td ran it on the dyno stock. Will then took it to fensport who fitted the manifold etc and mapped it. Will then took it back to td for an after dyno.

That clears that up then !
Cheers

[Kodename47]

Just goes to prove you can't necessarily determine best cam timing from the MAF voltage.

You'll never get best results for a manifold by road tuning alone. Kevin's Tomei was another good example of this.

[Blood]

Originally Posted by Moto-Phil

It seems as if you've been drinking a lot of a certain Kool-aid. The major player in tuning a car after installing a header is exhaust cam timing. For you to think a specific tune can rain supreme over all others is not only incorrect but shows that misinformation is indeed being spread.

Of course no specific tune will reign supreme if you have bottomless pockets to pay for hours of dyno time.

But if you look at this logically and keep cost in mind, it makes more sense to buy an already proven "off the shelf" tune. They likely have hundreds of hours (or more) of dyno time with the header baked into their off the shelf tune. It just doesn't make sense to chance paying another tuner that likely doesn't even have half the hours of dyno time with the header quite a bit more for hourly dyno time in addition to the cost of the base tune and possibly end up with lower performance.

[churchx]

Hmm, DT was involved in development of Type A/350 or CS400? I recall very bad initial dyno results for A/350 with stock tune and with not-ace-specific OTS tunes by Ace .. and that was before since initial A/350 were already made/released/published/starting selling. Yes, popularity of header spiked, when DT spent lot of time to get right tune for it and CSG published results/review, but was it "involved in development" as in some changes to header construction by DT advise? CS400 got released after all that, to solve RHD fitment problems while still pushing 350-like low-mid rpm torque by request of some RHD countries users .. but again, was DT involved in developing actual header? They may have spent most time on getting tunes right and many associate them with success of these headers, but these latest user posts about involvement are first claims about it i saw.

[Lantana frs]

So for a relative newb like myself it would seem that the aces scavenging characteristics require some unique vvt numbers?

[AceHeader-MT]

To help clear some things up

The Development:
When we started we were using the 350 design. We went to California to meet with CSG and Delicious Tuning to get their feedback.

CSG proceeded to test in multiple cases (road and track) while Delicious was playing with tuning and dyno's.

We went through variations (150, 250 and 350) and finally ended up with the CS400. This is the equivalent (if not slightly torquier) 350 for LHD and RHD.

The Anaconda series was created for the high RPM track users.

There are still specific cases where a 150 or 250 are best, but these were rare cases.

The Tuners:
Delicious was on board first and therefore has more time with these then any other tuning shop. They also have thousands of hours of experience long before the FT86 ever came out. They know they're stuff and we chose to run their product.

MotoEast has done some work for a tester/developer in Australia and the results are also amazing. The guys at MotoEast seem to know what they're doing.

Fensport has a reputation as the best in Europe. This is their first attempt with this header and after meeting them a few months back we have no doubt that they will dial everything in quickly and continue to produce some of the fastest cars in Europe.

All the OFT tuners have also made lots of people very happy and they continues to stand behind their work. Another good option in our opinion.

Conclusion:
Are you the customer happy with the product you received? Quality, Service, Drivabilty and Cost are the key. These points are different for each of us regardless if we're talking about headers, tunes, wheels, tires or transmissions.

Without multiple suppliers of the same products, there is no motivation for improvement.

Thanks to all the tuners and suppliers for forcing Ace to keep moving forward.

Happy Driving,
Team Ace

[HarropOz]

We use and recommend CS400 Headers.

Harrop Engineering.

[Kodename47]

Originally Posted by AceHeader-MT

Fensport has a reputation as the best in Europe. This is their first attempt with this header and after meeting them a few months back we have no doubt that they will dial everything in quickly and continue to produce some of the fastest cars in Europe.

You forgot who you sent your 1st manifold to in the UK, currently on a @HarropOz SC car and making good numbers. Waiting eagerly to see the Anaconda results as I hear one is inbound and their NA results when they have the time

As much as I respect Adrian and Fensport's reputation for tuning, I have yet to see anything that they have tuned on this platform other than their AVO turbo kits that have made the power I would expect. I wonder how many on this forum would take a brand new manifold, such as this, to a tuner and then be happy with an unproven road only tune? However that is how they tune on this platform and it seems to be widely accepted over here because they have the reputation as "the best". IMO you get what you pay for, if you want a decent tune for any non-stock manifold then the tuner will need to have spent time on a dyno at some point.

[AceHeader-MT]

Originally Posted by Kodename47

You forgot who you sent your 1st manifold to in the UK, currently on a @HarropOz SC car and making good numbers. Waiting eagerly to see the Anaconda results as I hear one is inbound and their NA results when they have the time

As much as I respect Adrian and Fensport's reputation for tuning, I have yet to see anything that they have tuned on this platform other than their AVO turbo kits that have made the power I would expect. I wonder how many on this forum would take a brand new manifold, such as this, to a tuner and then be happy with an unproven road only tune? However that is how they tune on this platform and it seems to be widely accepted over here because they have the reputation as "the best". IMO you get what you pay for, if you want a decent tune for any non-stock manifold then the tuner will need to have spent time on a dyno at some point.

Didn't want to throw Abbey into the mix as there was no mention of them in the discussion.

Mark and his team have been working for 2 years with both the 250 and the CS400. In fact, Abbey received CS400 "Prototype 0001" because of their strong due diligence and close relationship with Harrop.

Those in the know, know Abbey

Abbey's tuning and dyno results for NA on A-250 can be found here. Along with NA dyno numbers from a tuner in Sweden and an Edelbrock tune by someone in the NC86 club:
http://blog.aceheader.com/2015/11/ac...mation_17.html