Set up for great all-arounder/jack-of-all-trades

[c4lvinnn]

Anyone got a set up for literally the "jack of all trades" type? daily driving duties to backroad carving, to parking lot fun, to track days (grip road race and drift events)

Mods:
BC Coilovers 8k/8k, full stiff dampening (can adjust obviously for each specific event, but i keep it at full stiff to reduce rubbing on roads)
Stock BC camber plates and slotted coilover mounts

Purpose:
95% "aggressive" Street Driving/backroads carving/parking lot drifting
5% track days (road race and drift)

Tires:
Stock Prius garbage, couple months:
255/35/18 Sumitomo HTR ZIII (found that its a good balance between best dry performance for the price besides 595s) and I can tear up if I wanted to

Alignment:

Front Left
Camber: -3.2 to -3.5 (TBD)
Toe: 0

Front Right
Camber: -3.2 to -3.5 (TBD)
Toe: 0

Rear Left
Camber: -2.5
Toe: 0 (possibly 0.08 (Toe In))

Rear Right
Camber: -2.5
Toe: 0 (possibly 0.08 (Toe In))


Also thinking of getting a set of Hotchkis sways. I know they're tubular, so I think the front is equivalent to a 22mm solid and a 19mm rear. I have slight understeer at turn in, but can just throttle it out if I wanted to get the tail out more, especially during some parking lot drifts. It has MUCH less body roll and understeer with just the coils.

I want to keep the most neutral handling I can (almost like it is now) and can throttle/power the rears out if I wanted to, so I'm probably going to have to adjust the sways until I find a good balance. Though with the 255s in a few weeks, I doubt it will be easier to do. Thoughts? Ideas?

[Dream20b]

If you want to make a all around car, I suggest adding some power as well. A basic supercharger kit such as the Innovate/Sprintex 210 kit will add just enough power to make you competitive on the strip as well.

[cjd]

I assume you'll have the needed parts to get that alignment. I'd go with a little rear toe at least, just a little more driving comfort. Also would do a bit less camber if you're not doing a race focused build. About a half degree less in back than front to start.

No comment on the coils beyond thinking that doesn't sound like a comfortable setup, and not sure what kind of performance either.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by c4lvinnn

Anyone got a set up for literally the "jack of all trades" type? daily driving duties to backroad carving, to parking lot fun, to track days (grip road race and drift events)

Mods:
BC Coilovers 8k/8k, full stiff dampening (can adjust obviously for each specific event, but i keep it at full stiff to reduce rubbing on roads)
Stock BC camber plates and slotted coilover mounts

Purpose:
95% "aggressive" Street Driving/backroads carving/parking lot drifting
5% track days (road race and drift)

Tires:
Stock Prius garbage, couple months:
255/35/18 Sumitomo HTR ZIII (found that its a good balance between best dry performance for the price besides 595s) and I can tear up if I wanted to

Alignment:

Front Left
Camber: -3.2 to -3.5 (TBD)
Toe: 0

Front Right
Camber: -3.2 to -3.5 (TBD)
Toe: 0

Rear Left
Camber: -2.5
Toe: 0 (possibly 0.08 (Toe In))

Rear Right
Camber: -2.5
Toe: 0 (possibly 0.08 (Toe In))


Also thinking of getting a set of Hotchkis sways. I know they're tubular, so I think the front is equivalent to a 22mm solid and a 19mm rear. I have slight understeer at turn in, but can just throttle it out if I wanted to get the tail out more, especially during some parking lot drifts. It has MUCH less body roll and understeer with just the coils.

I want to keep the most neutral handling I can (almost like it is now) and can throttle/power the rears out if I wanted to, so I'm probably going to have to adjust the sways until I find a good balance. Though with the 255s in a few weeks, I doubt it will be easier to do. Thoughts? Ideas?

You have a pretty understeery setup. Rotation is driver induced, not car induced.

The problem with a "jack of all trades" is taht it's good at nothing, and mediocre at everything.

I'd recommend either setting it up strictly for either the 95%, or the 5%, and "dealing with it" the rest of the time. You'll be much happier.

[TylerLieberman]

Car will drift like a bag of hot garbage with that setup.

Everything is a compromise.

In my opinion, have two different sets of wheels. The larger, grippy setup for track and all that jazz. Then a set of smaller 17s just for drifting. As far as suspension setup goes, the best thing you could do is set the alignment and everything the week prior to a specific event so that way the car is set for the type of driving you'll be doing.

If the suspension is adjustable, no reason why you need to stick with one setup to do everything. The car is pretty versatile chassis. You can do all sorts of racing/motor sports with it, provided the car is set to do so.

[cjd]

FWIW, a recent road-trip (7hrs each way) with my AutoX setup (Tein SRC set at 12/12 F&R, and the recommended 10kF/12kR springs, -3.3/-2.8 camber, zero toe, stock sways, 17x8 with 225 PSS) got the wife's "I can knit the whole way" stamp of approval. A couple roads were a clear problem, but overall surprisingly comfy the whole way.

In fact, the added noise (from the various bushings/inserts and the tires) were a bigger grumble.

Do it right, and that race oriented setup may not be much of a compromise on the street.

[strat61caster]

Entry level all arounder in my mind: camber bolts + quality 4-wheel alignment (>-1 camber up front but not much more), Performance tires (<300TW OEM size, PSS, Z2, RS3, RE11), Brake Pads + Fluid (swapping back to stock pads for DD) buys you a ton with the only sacrifice being increased road noise and decreased fuel economy from the tires for around $1.5k.

The only thing possibly missing is data logging and additional cooling for tracking and longevity, this should give most owners a car much more capable than their talent, but probably not the owners browsing this section, at least not for very long.

Originally Posted by Dream20b

If you want to make a all around car, I suggest adding some power as well. A basic supercharger kit such as the Innovate/Sprintex 210 kit will add just enough power to make you competitive on the strip as well.

I would argue against supercharging for an "all-around" car. While there has been a lot of effort put into FI kits and hundreds if not thousands of people with tens of thousands of miles on them this engine is still highly unproven in my mind, only a handful have seen 60k miles stock. It can take years for fatal flaws to be uncovered costing eager early adopters thousands of dollars.

The kind of people that are building an "all around" car usually do so because it is the ONLY car they can do these things with, they don't have a backup DD or a track bitch in the garage. The prospect of spending well over $5k on FI and supporting mods (this is the track/autocross/drift section, not the commute to work section, the power has to be beneficial otherwise it's cheaper to throw $5k out the window to save weight) to have your daily driver blow up and cost another $4k+ to rebuild/replace is a hard prospect to swallow for most people.

If you have the cash to do it then by all means I won't stop anyone but to ignore the risk is foolish.

[Teseo]

I thought the car is "all around" when came from the factory

[Dream20b]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Entry level all arounder in my mind: camber bolts + quality 4-wheel alignment (>-1 camber up front but not much more), Performance tires (<300TW OEM size, PSS, Z2, RS3, RE11), Brake Pads + Fluid (swapping back to stock pads for DD) buys you a ton with the only sacrifice being increased road noise and decreased fuel economy from the tires for around $1.5k.

The only thing possibly missing is data logging and additional cooling for tracking and longevity, this should give most owners a car much more capable than their talent, but probably not the owners browsing this section, at least not for very long.



I would argue against supercharging for an "all-around" car. While there has been a lot of effort put into FI kits and hundreds if not thousands of people with tens of thousands of miles on them this engine is still highly unproven in my mind, only a handful have seen 60k miles stock. It can take years for fatal flaws to be uncovered costing eager early adopters thousands of dollars.

The kind of people that are building an "all around" car usually do so because it is the ONLY car they can do these things with, they don't have a backup DD or a track bitch in the garage. The prospect of spending well over $5k on FI and supporting mods (this is the track/autocross/drift section, not the commute to work section, the power has to be beneficial otherwise it's cheaper to throw $5k out the window to save weight) to have your daily driver blow up and cost another $4k+ to rebuild/replace is a hard prospect to swallow for most people.

If you have the cash to do it then by all means I won't stop anyone but to ignore the risk is foolish.

Solid points.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Teseo

I thought the car is "all around" when came from the factory

OEM Brakes are not up to the task of tracking at 10/10th's for more than a few laps in the hands of a capable driver on stock rubber.

OEM Camber is usually not enough (mine was at -0.3 degrees), the outside edge of the tires will get destroyed both on track and AutoX.

There are lots of other places to improve the car (cooling is strongly recommended but I haven't seen hard proof that it's causing damage, I would love to be refuted) but not fixing those two problems will cost more in the long run as insufficient braking is downright dangerous and both tires and brakes will wear prematurely.

This thread is in the Tracking/Autocross/HPDE/Drifting section of the forum, if the car isn't being pushed to the limit then yes, it's good to go from the factory. Many people will have a blast doing any of the above activities on a stock car and not need any upgrades at all, a good one or two or few times experience. But if it's a serious hobby then the car falls short, period.

[Ultramaroon]

Strat's on point with initial track-friendly tweaks. Best bang for the buck right there.



...but he still needs to fix his clutch.

[Teseo]

All around to me means you can do it but not perfect. Its like comparing a woman doing striptease and the other an ordinary mom

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Teseo

All around to me means you can do it but not perfect. Its like comparing a woman doing striptease and the other an ordinary mom

I agree. It's already pretty much there in that sense. Brake pads and camber are the track equivalent of heels and glitter. Sort of a minimum requirement to actually do it right.

[c4lvinnn]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

The kind of people that are building an "all around" car usually do so because it is the ONLY car they can do these things with, they don't have a backup DD or a track bitch in the garage. The prospect of spending well over $5k on FI and supporting mods (this is the track/autocross/drift section, not the commute to work section, the power has to be beneficial otherwise it's cheaper to throw $5k out the window to save weight) to have your daily driver blow up and cost another $4k+ to rebuild/replace is a hard prospect to swallow for most people.

If you have the cash to do it then by all means I won't stop anyone but to ignore the risk is foolish.

Correct to an extent. I have a S14 project in the garage which is going to be for a full drift build. LSx, 10pt cage, all suspension, knuckles, RC adjusters, steering rack spacers, etc etc. I'm not touching the engine of this car, especially not until the warranty is up. I see no point at the moment. But that's a couple years until I get it done so the S14 is irrelevant right now.

Hence the "I'll deal with the 5% of the time" and get the best out I can for the 95%.

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

You have a pretty understeery setup. Rotation is driver induced, not car induced.

The problem with a "jack of all trades" is taht it's good at nothing, and mediocre at everything.

I'd recommend either setting it up strictly for either the 95%, or the 5%, and "dealing with it" the rest of the time. You'll be much happier.

That's pretty much what I'm doing is trying to get the most out of my 95% and "dealing" with it the 5% of the time.

I may not be at the limit on the roads, but it sure feels pretty neutral with a hint of understeer. I mean I did say if I needed the rears to come out more (not necessarily for drifting, but in general), I can throttle it out, wouldn't that be the same as what you said as "rotation is driver induced?"

Also, obviously the spring rates being 8/8 naturally would give the car more understeer at the limit, but couldn't I offset by a stiffer and larger rear bar? Or even an 8/10k setup? That's what I was getting at with the hotchkis sways part.