2025 BRZ Turbo

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

With upcoming mandates regarding EVs, it's very hard to believe. I don't see Toyota/Subaru spending the amount of money it would take re-engineer the platform and make it wildly more expensive when the entire goal is to be an affordable 2+2 sports car.

They will make a few small updates over the model run, maybe a few special editions with exclusive colors and such.

I expect this platform to maybe last as long as the first gen and then it will gone for good. Unless they just use the badge for a 4-door EV, ala Ford Mustang Mach E.

I wonder if they are able to utilize eTNGA at all for a sports car application, or if the rumors are true and they're rethinking their EV strategy with a ground-up platform if that EV platform will be able to accommodate a sports car application.

[fredzy]

The hybrid thing is total BS, I can't fathom them doing anything like that. Dumb.

A straight G16 turbo ICE 86/BRZ is probably even less likely for a million different reasons.. but there is one reason they should do it: it would be pure frickin' gold.

I think it could be done for around $40k and would weigh the same, if not less. Yes lots of things would have to change aside from the engine. I think it would be a better/more fun car in every way except engine response. Not that the FA24 is notably responsive. It's average for an NA engine, just the fact that it is NA in our current world of turbos helps it stand out.

*edit* as added bonus I think there would be enough room between the engine and radiator for an extra luggage compartment

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

Clearly you dont know what you're talking about. According to the Internet University of Mobile Engineering Solutions, all of those things you mentioned should have no bearing on the price of the vehicle and should have and could have done from the factory EASILY. The main culprit is that the manufacturer didnt try hard enough, or they keep getting their engineering pros from some schmuck school in a city rather than the TRUE experts online.

Excellent work on that one.

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

I wonder if they are able to utilize eTNGA at all for a sports car application, or if the rumors are true and they're rethinking their EV strategy with a ground-up platform if that EV platform will be able to accommodate a sports car application.

It's a good question. I think the more important one would be, "How many people are interested in an electric sports car?"

Obviously I'm not everyone, but for me, I wouldn't be.

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

It's a good question. I think the more important one would be, "How many people are interested in an electric sports car?"

Obviously I'm not everyone, but for me, I wouldn't be.

When there are no more ICE sports cars you (plural) won't have a choice. I'm still hoping some manufacturer (Mazda's gram-strategy? Lotus' add lightness?) will make a lowish HP, light weight, fun EV sports car. Something like the original Tesla Roadster with modern battery tech and less weight. I'm just sick of modern cars (ICE and EV) solving performance (and fun) by adding power instead of removing weight.

[Desertnate]

Originally Posted by fredzy

The hybrid thing is total BS, I can't fathom them doing anything like that. Dumb.

I think if the car is to survive at all it, some level of electrification will be because of this:

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

With upcoming mandates regarding EVs...

I understood many of the EV mandates to be for cars to be electrified in some way, i.e. hybrids or PHEVs versus a total ban on the sale of ICE vehicles, though I do think that does exist in some countries.

Most of those mandates kick in around 2030 or 2035. If the BRZ runs a typical 8 year lifecycle, that puts us at 2030. No way anyone would develop a totally new car that could only be on the market for a few years.

If done right, you could use electrification to boost performance along-side the ICE instead of forced induction. This would put you on the road toward total electrification.

All that said, any change in that direction moves the 86 platform totally away from it's current design brief and won't be the car we know/love today. Weight, complexity, cost, and likely size, will all go up. If it survives to see a change of this type at all...

Based on what we're seeing today, a small PHEV or EV sportscar might have a market in that world of the future. It would be a huge departure from all the soulless EV blobs we see on the road today. Other than Tesla's toying with the idea, no other mainstream automaker is even talking about an enthusiast EV/PHEV sportscar

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by Desertnate

Other than Tesla's toying with the idea, no other mainstream automaker is even talking about an enthusiast EV/PHEV sportscar

I wouldn't call the new Tesla Roadster (if that is what you are referring to) a serious progress for driving enthusiasts - it would basically be a less practical Model S Plaid, with moar power and not a word on fun.

Also, Porsche seem pretty serious with the 718 EV and have so far offered the best driving mainstream EV (the Taycan). Lotus and Alpine are also promising fun EVs (with things like a "mid-engine" battery pack and continuation of lightweight aluminum chassis), but these are less concrete.

[Desertnate]

Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast

I wouldn't call the new Tesla Roadster (if that is what you are referring to) a serious progress for driving enthusiasts - it would basically be a less practical Model S Plaid, with moar power and not a word on fun.

Yes, I was referring to the Tesla Roadster. I didn't say they were making progress or that it would be any good; only the fact they had talked about it. At this point in time I take everything Tesla says with a massive grain of salt and have very low expectations of the results.

Also, Porsche seem pretty serious with the 718 EV and have so far offered the best driving mainstream EV (the Taycan). Lotus and Alpine are also promising fun EVs (with things like a "mid-engine" battery pack and continuation of lightweight aluminum chassis), but these are less concrete.

Good point on the 718, I'd forgotten that one. As for the Taycan, I consider that a really good EV sedan and not a sports car in the same vein as our 86's or a 718. A good car, yes, but it's rather large.

I also forgot about Lotus and hadn't heard Alpine as going to do a EV successor to the A110, but in my mind, both produce such low numbers I don't really categorize them as "mainstream". I tend to lump Lotus into the same category as Aston, Ferrari, and others. Not because of the cost of their vehicles, but more because of their rarity on the roads.

[Racecomp Engineering]

My wild ass guess...

Optimistically, the 2nd gen makes it to 2028 or so. Minimal changes over that time period, possibly a performance pack.

If the BRZ/86 continue to exist after that...and it might not...it will either be a hybrid or full electric. I don't see them both switching to a Toyota platform, which means either that's it for the BRZ and the 86 continues on it's own (unlikely) or the twins use whatever the new Subaru Global Platform EV/hybrid version will be.

If you want a regular old ICE twin...this is most likely it. Almost 0 chance there's another ICE only generation. Maybe a refresh like the 2017-20 models. Just my opinion.

That said, I think a hybrid BRZ could be done in a way that is engaging and fun. We'll see.

Again just a wild ass guess and I'm making this up as I type.

- Andrew

[The Red One]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

My wild ass guess...

Again just a wild ass guess and I'm making this up as I type.

- Andrew

I think you have a writer’s job waiting for you at Torque News!
They seem to have a high demand for your W.A.G. skills

[alex87f]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

Clearly you dont know what you're talking about. According to the Internet University of Mobile Engineering Solutions, all of those things you mentioned should have no bearing on the price of the vehicle and should have and could have done from the factory EASILY. The main culprit is that the manufacturer didnt try hard enough, or they keep getting their engineering pros from some schmuck school in a city rather than the TRUE experts online.

I stand corrected, my sincerest apologies for having offended the great minds of the Internet University of Mobile Engineering Solutions.

BRB after I'm done with self-flagellation.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by The Red One

I think you have a writer’s job waiting for you at Torque News!
They seem to have a high demand for your W.A.G. skills

Haha my WAGs aren't nearly wild enough for them.

- Andrew

[TurboLag23]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

That said, I think a hybrid BRZ could be done in a way that is engaging and fun. We'll see.

- Andrew

This would be the easiest thing in the world actually - and I'm patiently waiting for when an automaker actually does it with a sports car. Whichever automaker does it first would be entering a space that's currently completely unoccupied - and where the market is very clearly headed.

You employ the exact same recipe as the 1st gen Honda Insight, Honda CRZ, and most of the Mazdas sold in Europe (the e-Skyactiv-X cars). You take an efficient gas engine, you put an electric motor between it and the flywheel, you mount up the rest of the clutch and a manual transmission, and you top it off with a small battery pack (5-6 kWh). Done. You get a manual-transmission mild hybrid with the benefit of a greatly aided power curve (much more power/torque at low RPMs), along with dramatically increased fuel efficiency.

In the case of the Mazda3 sold in Europe, they offer two versions: the normal petrol version (identical to what we have here), and the e-Skyactiv X version. The weight difference is a whopping... 134 lbs. I'd take that tradeoff in a heartbeat, especially since the batteries can be located in the spare tire well to aid in weight distribution (unlike FI, which pretty much has to go where the engine is).

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by TurboLag23

You get a manual-transmission mild hybrid with the benefit of a greatly aided power curve (much more power/torque at low RPMs), along with dramatically increased fuel efficiency.

In the case of the Mazda3 sold in Europe, they offer two versions: the normal petrol version (identical to what we have here), and the e-Skyactiv X version. The weight difference is a whopping... 134 lbs. I'd take that tradeoff in a heartbeat, especially since the batteries can be located in the spare tire well to aid in weight distribution (unlike FI, which pretty much has to go where the engine is).

What are the quoted efficiency increases between the petrol and e-Skyactiv X versions?

[TurboLag23]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

What are the quoted efficiency increases between the petrol and e-Skyactiv X versions?

Mazda quotes 20-30% increases.

Anecdotally, magazines are reporting everything from low 40s in city driving to high 50s on highway.