Street tires for some track use

[Tristor]

Originally Posted by RJasonKlein

@Tristor, what kind of track driving do you do, autocross or DE? Overall, how do you rate your level of experience?

I'm not very experienced on track, really just getting into it. I've done 4 track days so far, with a 5th coming up, and all of them have been with someone instructing me. I don't do autocross, I mostly enjoy back country highways when I'm not on track, but I am working on accelerating how often I get on track. I am planning to do at least 5 more this year.


I haven't been doing events (like HPDE), instead I've just been finding tracks nearby and working out private instruction arrangements with them. I'm much more comfortable on track right now when I'm not in a group with other inexperienced drivers because I can relax a little bit of my worries about someone else making a mistake and hitting me and then only have to worry about me making a mistake It's a little more expensive doing things this way, but it's helped a lot with how rapidly I feel like I've improved.


Given the feedback in the thread it sounds like Hankook RS4s are a strong contender as well. Looks like they're sold out on Tire Rack though, I'll have to see if anyone local can acquire them.

[Qwimby1]

Originally Posted by Tristor

I'm not very experienced on track, really just getting into it. I've done 4 track days so far, with a 5th coming up, and all of them have been with someone instructing me. I don't do autocross, I mostly enjoy back country highways when I'm not on track, but I am working on accelerating how often I get on track. I am planning to do at least 5 more this year.


I haven't been doing events (like HPDE), instead I've just been finding tracks nearby and working out private instruction arrangements with them. I'm much more comfortable on track right now when I'm not in a group with other inexperienced drivers because I can relax a little bit of my worries about someone else making a mistake and hitting me and then only have to worry about me making a mistake It's a little more expensive doing things this way, but it's helped a lot with how rapidly I feel like I've improved.


Given the feedback in the thread it sounds like Hankook RS4s are a strong contender as well. Looks like they're sold out on Tire Rack though, I'll have to see if anyone local can acquire them.

I'm glad your plan works for you, but suggest you take a look at organized track days pretty soon. Learning how to deal with traffic adds a lot to your ability and fun. HPDE passing rules significantly diminish collision danger. In fact, after more than 35 years instructing, I can't recall an on-track collision between two inexperienced drivers.

[Horrid_Funk]

Hankook RS-4's are great but they don't squeal before they let out. I was riding along with another BRZ with RS-4's at my last day at Laguna Seca and when the tires would break traction they gave pretty much no warning at all, it was just oops we're sliding now. I have the 86cup sponsored GT Radial SX2's and they squeal like a pig, it's great for knowing where the limit is at before you have good recovery response. They're a lot cheaper, but they don't have as much lateral grip as the RS-4's. It seems like money isn't really an issue for you, though.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Tristor

My driving is about 20% DD, 40% twisties/canyon, and 40% track.

Do you want to have a tire working good on the 60% of your time or the 40% of your time?

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhwD-b0d9DY[/ame]

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88

I probably wouldn't run any of those as a dd/canyon and occasional track tire. I've done it with RE-71Rs, and they just wear too fast and are pretty loud.

Yep ...

[2Wavy]

I did a lot of research on what tires to get because my BRZ is my DD and I do autocross too, and I wasn't ready to get a second set of wheels and tires. I considered the RE71R too, because it wears faster than most 200TW tires. I was deciding between the RS4 and the ZII star specs but tirerack was out of stock on RS4s so I ended up going with ZII star specs. Both of these tires will probably last you a lot longer than the RE71R. A common complaint I've heard with RE71Rs is they heat cycle fast and end up losing a lot of grip well before they're worn out. I don't seem to see these complaints with RS4s and ZII star specs. Plus the ZIII is available in the US now and I'm betting they're even better than the ZII star specs.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Horrid_Funk

Hankook RS-4's are great but they don't squeal before they let out. I was riding along with another BRZ with RS-4's at my last day at Laguna Seca and when the tires would break traction they gave pretty much no warning at all, it was just oops we're sliding now. I have the 86cup sponsored GT Radial SX2's and they squeal like a pig, it's great for knowing where the limit is at before you have good recovery response. They're a lot cheaper, but they don't have as much lateral grip as the RS-4's. It seems like money isn't really an issue for you, though.

Just because they are not making noise does not mean they are not communicative. I can feel my RS3's approaching the limit well before they go. Can't wait to try RS4's.

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Just because they are not making noise does not mean they are not communicative. I can feel my RS3's approaching the limit well before they go. Can't wait to try RS4's.

Your RS-3's don't squawk? I asked an instructor today about his RS-4's and was told they give lots of notice before losing grip

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by new2subaru

Your RS-3's don't squawk? I asked an instructor today about his RS-4's and was told they give lots of notice before losing grip

They do but they are not loud. You can feel it when they are starting to loose grip long before you are in a full on slide.

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

They do but they are not loud. You can feel it when they are starting to loose grip long before you are in a full on slide.

Loud is subjective.They aren't as loud as the stock tires but I find them quite loud. Regardless, we're both getting an audible warning

I wonder if it has something to do with the tire size? I'm on 205/55R16's. They have quite a bit of give to them, which I like.

[Lynxis]

Originally Posted by new2subaru

Your RS-3's don't squawk? I asked an instructor today about his RS-4's and was told they give lots of notice before losing grip

I've reviewed video from last year and this year on the same set of RS3s, same car, no change to modifications, recorded on the same phone, on the same race track. In the video from last year, you can hear they make more noise at equivalent g-loads but this year, they hardly make any noise at all before letting go. Seems they get quieter as they get older...

Last year:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3En78k2uqM[/ame]

This year:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lB7T0Qx2hF4[/ame]

[new2subaru]

Interesting video

[RJasonKlein]

Originally Posted by Tristor

I'm not very experienced on track, really just getting into it. I've done 4 track days so far, with a 5th coming up, and all of them have been with someone instructing me. I don't do autocross, I mostly enjoy back country highways when I'm not on track, but I am working on accelerating how often I get on track. I am planning to do at least 5 more this year.


I haven't been doing events (like HPDE), instead I've just been finding tracks nearby and working out private instruction arrangements with them. I'm much more comfortable on track right now when I'm not in a group with other inexperienced drivers because I can relax a little bit of my worries about someone else making a mistake and hitting me and then only have to worry about me making a mistake It's a little more expensive doing things this way, but it's helped a lot with how rapidly I feel like I've improved.


Given the feedback in the thread it sounds like Hankook RS4s are a strong contender as well. Looks like they're sold out on Tire Rack though, I'll have to see if anyone local can acquire them.

It sounds like you’re taking things seriously and approaching things at your own pace. You can’t go wrong with some of the suggestions made so far, but given your somewhat atypical needs I’m going to suggest an atypical option: the Maxxis RC-1. Surprised? I don’t think you should be, and I’ll try to explain why. In short, you live in Texas and rarely deal with rain, you appear to want one set of tires for both daily driving and DE track days (that’s definitely not optimal, but it’s the scenario you’ve presented), and you’ve already decided to look at other R-comps - some of which far too soft and sticky for DE events.

I’ve daily driven the RC-1 during the spring, summer, and fall for the past year on primarily sunny days and it’s a blast. Here are the pros and cons of the tire broken down for you - then you can decide for yourself if it’ll meet your needs:

Pros:

• Exceptional grip - They’re not Hoosier sticky, but far stickier than any tire you’ve likely ever driven on. To give you and idea, they’re appreciably stickier when cold than a Michelin Pilot Sport 4S is when hot. Your car will feel radically different on these tires and your cornering speeds will increase substantially in the twisties and on the track.
• Perfect for DE events - That’s what they’re made for. There are faster tires available for track use, but few that are a better compromise of grip, wear, breakaway characteristics, thermal stability, and cost.
• Quiet - They’re effectively a street slick and they’re exceptionally quiet, although they do pick up lots of gravel when warm. Some of the other R-comps you’re looking at will howl like a freight train on the street.
• Durable - You’ll be able to run them for many DE days before they need replacement and they work well out of the box and all the way down to the cords - and unlike some of the other R-comps you’re looking at, they won’t heat cycle out on the street.
• Affordable - I think I paid around $208 a tire.
• Surprisingly streetable - This is the point everyone will question, but they’re actually a damn good street tire under the right circumstances. They’re a friendly tire to drive on, with progressive breakaway and decent grip even when the tire isn’t up to temperature. They’re quiet and the sidewall isn’t rock hard, so they even ride pretty well. The level of grip you’ll have in the dry will certainly allow you to start, stop, and turn faster then other vehicles on the street. Yes, their Achilles heel is standing water - they’re a slick after all, so standing water is a no-go, period. I drive my car as a warm weather toy and only on sunny days, and you’re in Texas so I don’t really see how this is any different for you. If you get caught out in rain then you can’t drive, or you need to go very slowly just to get you where you need to go. Contrary to most expectations, if the pavement is damp but there’s no standing water the tire is perfectly streetable.

Cons:

• Weight - They’re not the heaviest tire out there, but they’re a track tire and is therefore a little heavier than most street tires. Heavy is never good, but they’re not terrible.
• Fair weather only - I covered these issues pretty completely above, but they’re a warm and dry weather tire only. Performance drops off considerably below 45°F and they really shouldn’t be driven on when temperatures drop below 40°F.
• Steering feel - It’s not terrible, but they’re a track tire and they feel like one. Steering feel is reduced and steering weight is increased. A lot of this can be exacerbated by alignment settings - I run a lot of caster, which doesn’t help things in this regard.
• Not for stock suspension - You’ll need coilovers or stiffer springs to run an R-comp. This isn’t unique to this tire, but just a result of running any tire with a radically higher level of grip.

The Maxxis RC-1 will not work for everyone, but they may for you given your particular needs. Several people have given me a hard time on the forum in the past when I’ve suggested them, but I made my decision to run them on my warm weather daily driver after a long conversation with @CSG Mike, and I don’t feel like he steered me wrong. I’ve run them for a year without a single regret, so at least check them out.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by new2subaru

Loud is subjective.They aren't as loud as the stock tires but I find them quite loud. Regardless, we're both getting an audible warning

I wonder if it has something to do with the tire size? I'm on 205/55R16's. They have quite a bit of give to them, which I like.

Could be. I am on 245/40/17.

[Sleepless]

Originally Posted by Tristor

Howdy,


I'm rocking 225/40R18 Michelin Pilot Sport 4S right now, and while I'm enjoying these tires I feel like I'm leaving some tire performance on the table and I live in an environment where I can run more aggressive tires without much worry driving on the street with them due to weather.

My driving is about 20% DD, 40% twisties/canyon, and 40% track.

I'd stick with the PS4S until you can feel them getting greasy or you start sliding a bit. If they aren’t sliding, getting greasy or chunking then there isn’t much reaso to upgrade. After that, I can highly recommend the AD08Rs. They can take a track beating, last much longer than the other tires you listed and aren't noisy like the other tires.